NJ-GT

Cold weather is definitely not the issue, cold tires could be. I've run fast laps in freezing temperatures. A couple of friends just set very fast laps at LRP and Pocono East/North the last two weeks. My GT3 loves cold weather and a dry tracks.

Something to think about is the PASM firm setting on a not smooth track. Deadly, drive with PASM on the firm setting on the streets and you will notice the car bounces over bumps, literally the rear wheels can jump off the ground. Add some high speed, bumps and PASM firm, and be ready for a twitchy car.

Carrera GT

Good point and that would be a contributor to unweighting. I don't find it to be quite such a handful on the street (just uncomfortable) but I'm pretty calm on the street and choose better roads when I'm in the GT3.

03-turbo911

Even though the track I run on is pretty smooth, I did nearly all my stints in the PASM "normal". I didn't like the "firm" setting.

997gt3north

- as I mentioned earlier, maybe FIRM played a small role in this - maybe?
- as I do not know the track, it was interesting to read the bmw racers comments as I can tell you for sure that at Limerock going into Noname (turn #4 going onto the back straight) I myself could feel the offcamber effect on the rear end if I didn't hit the apex properly (i.e. was a couple feet off the curve which forced a track out into off camber land)
- infact, until my instructor had me begin not to lift at all but keep the throttle fully on to take the corner, the lower speed (lift then turn in) only made the off camber "interesting"
- what was very obvious was that in order to go faster and faster your line has to be really good (for me this turn can now be taken with lots of thottle as I turn in very sharply and use all the positive camber at the apex to shoot me out of the corner and most if not all of the negative camber territory is avoided) - if I took this corner at the speed I'm taking it now with the line that I was using before, I would be able to post a similarly unfortunate video
- lesson learned for me was that everytime you want to go faster, go find a faster instructor to ride with you

MHC2S

I cannot believe that YOU 997 GT3 guys cannot figure out why this poor guy spun his new GT3 at Summit Point.

IT WAS THE SUNROOF THAT DID IT!!!!!!! LOL HA HA HA HO HO HO

frayed

On a related note, sunroof has been linked to global warming.

pdxjim

Sunroof = global spinning?

TD in DC

I heard it wasn't a sunroof at all, but rather a nascar style air brake for those code brown moments when you find yourself travelling backwards at high rates of speed.

KRA993tt

I think as you gain driving experience you will understand better what happened. I doubt there is a mechanical reason for the spin. I think you will realize you were not driving the car to the left or tracking out as required. The car has a great amount of horsepower.

Glad you are ok. Sorry about the damage. Good luck.

Andy (Portland, OR)

ln reading this thread it appears that most who've watched the video (not including me because I'm traveling and it doesn't play on my dial-up) conclude that the spin was induced by power-on oversteer (maybe contributed to by cold tires, by surface undulation, by dirt, etc.).

So where was the TC, which the driver said was not turned off? Some have described it as "unobtrusive." Unobtrusive to the point of ineffective?

Pinching and getting on the power too hard/early seems to be the exact scenario TC was designed for. (At least in a car of this type; it's not an SUV where TC might be optimized for getting you up your icy driveway.)

What am I missing?

Andy

997gt3north

- the car wasn't exactly going 30mph in the video (looks like 100mph)
- my tc saved me / kicked in at 25 degrees in January turning a corner at 25mph when the rear end just slid out
- in this video, the save was maybe doable by someone who new it was coming with very fast hands, but the driver was going fast and probably in hot weather with sticky tires this would may not have happend (my opinion) - that said, the fact that it did highlights that TC can't save your bacon at very highspeeds if too many "small" things go wrong at the same time (line, throttle application, cold track, still learning the car)

- in summary, it is really a credit to Porsche's engineers that they have figured out how to make this rear engined car as stable as it is and easy for the weekend track warrior to make fast laps but it also shows that as you start to push to "your limit" you better understand were it is and that just because the car is capable of more doesn't mean that you have the skills yet to consistently and safely drive at that speed

TD in DC

TC cannot overcome the laws of physics.

I have even seen cars that have PSM, which is much more obtrusive, spin and go into the wall at that exact same spot.

Flying Finn

+1

I feel sorry for the damage although I'm glad to hear it was just cosmetical and more importantly, you are ok!

Now, the spin.

This looked very simple to me. Whether tyres were cold or not.

The reason why the spin started: you applied a tad too much gas & turned little too sharp for the situation/corner.

The reason why it resulted to a spin: you didn't recognize the tail coming out and didn't correct it early enough.

The slide wasn't actually very fast (don't mean the speed was slow but that the tail came quite slowly) so there should've been time to catch it. To me it didn't look like debris, technical or anything like that.
Maybe this was not familiar track to you, or you were on cold tyres, maybe you have not been in a situation like this beofre, I don't know but regardless and in all honesty, it was simply a driver error.

Andy (Portland, OR)

I understand that. Physics are physics.

As I read the posts, however, I also understood that the driver wasn't wildly overdriving the car; only that he may have gotten on the gas a bit too soon (with too much steering input) and/or aggressively -- which is the situation I thought TC was designed to address.

And, admittedly, there is a fine line between being too intrusive and being ineffective. I guess I'm suggesting that (admittedly based on very little data) that PERHAPS the TC is too unobtrusive.

And my question may be prompted somewhat by what I read in EVO mag recently: that in their testing the TC did not kick in until well after significant opposite lock was dialed in. Unobtrusive, indeed.

But, it must be a very difficult thing for Porsche engineers to determine where to draw that line when driving styles (and skills!) can differ so greatly.

Andy

MHC2S

HA HA LOL Good One