Smoke Puff on Startup
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
My car has begun belching a puff of what appears to be oil smoke from the exhaust pipes when started from cold. The smoke immediately disappears and the car runs normally thereafter. This began around the 700-mile mark. The car now has just under 1100 miles and has consumed no oil or coolant so far. Oil & coolant temps and pressures are normal when it's warmed up.
I'm not too concerned, as my prior 911s ('71 "E" and '88 Carrera) have done this on occasion, despite being healthy. Still, it would be reassuring if others are experiencing this with their 997 GT3s.
What say you?
I'm not too concerned, as my prior 911s ('71 "E" and '88 Carrera) have done this on occasion, despite being healthy. Still, it would be reassuring if others are experiencing this with their 997 GT3s.
What say you?
#2
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Oil smoke is blue. And smells. And leaves residue on the exhaust (black) and around the tips. Oil tends to billow and plume and hang around long enough to be studied.
If the smoke is thinner and more white than blue, it's water. Water tends to disperse.
You can place a piece of white cardboard over each outlet, leaving enough room for air to escape, and see what's really being expelled.
Kind of cold around there still?
Short trips in the car?
Could well just be condensation in the exhaust from the creation of water during combustion.
As for "consumed no oil or coolant" that's a sort of "false negative" that can't be trusted because moisture and fuel can end up in the oil, compensating for lost oil volume. And the coolant system can fail take in or return fluid to the reservoir.
I haven't had any trouble or read of even one 997 GT3 engine problem, but it's still early days. At 1100 miles, you're getting into the range of a discretionary oil change and maybe a quick trip to the dealer for a trusted tech to at least observe what you're seeing and generally inspect the car, just in the driveway for a few seconds. They could also look up any fresh tech bulletins and generally put the onus on them to judge whether you go home in the GT3 or a loaner while they do warranty inspections. If it's a loaner, try to get a new Cayenne with PDCC -- that's a fun car!
If the smoke is thinner and more white than blue, it's water. Water tends to disperse.
You can place a piece of white cardboard over each outlet, leaving enough room for air to escape, and see what's really being expelled.
Kind of cold around there still?
Short trips in the car?
Could well just be condensation in the exhaust from the creation of water during combustion.
As for "consumed no oil or coolant" that's a sort of "false negative" that can't be trusted because moisture and fuel can end up in the oil, compensating for lost oil volume. And the coolant system can fail take in or return fluid to the reservoir.
I haven't had any trouble or read of even one 997 GT3 engine problem, but it's still early days. At 1100 miles, you're getting into the range of a discretionary oil change and maybe a quick trip to the dealer for a trusted tech to at least observe what you're seeing and generally inspect the car, just in the driveway for a few seconds. They could also look up any fresh tech bulletins and generally put the onus on them to judge whether you go home in the GT3 or a loaner while they do warranty inspections. If it's a loaner, try to get a new Cayenne with PDCC -- that's a fun car!
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It DEFINITELY isn't condensation - anyone living in a cold climate like Michigan is familiar with the "steam clouds' that waft from a freshly-started engine in cold weather. Alltogether unlike what my car is emitting.
The smoke is blue-white and hangs around without dissipating if I've started the engine with the garage door closed. As for smell, can't tell, as it's at the rear of the car and the cabin air intake is at the front. It's such a brief thing that I'd be very surprised to see an oily residue on the inside of the exhaust tips.
BTW, nice descriptions of possible "smoke" clouds. Thanks.
PS: The car will go to the dealer for an oil and transaxle lube change after the breakin period is over (2K miles). If it's still doing it then, I'll complain.
The smoke is blue-white and hangs around without dissipating if I've started the engine with the garage door closed. As for smell, can't tell, as it's at the rear of the car and the cabin air intake is at the front. It's such a brief thing that I'd be very surprised to see an oily residue on the inside of the exhaust tips.
BTW, nice descriptions of possible "smoke" clouds. Thanks.
PS: The car will go to the dealer for an oil and transaxle lube change after the breakin period is over (2K miles). If it's still doing it then, I'll complain.
#4
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by khaug
It DEFINITELY isn't condensation - anyone living in a cold climate like Michigan is familiar with the "steam clouds' that waft from a freshly-started engine in cold weather. Alltogether unlike what my car is emitting.
Originally Posted by Steamed in Michigan
The smoke is blue-white and hangs around without dissipating if I've started the engine with the garage door closed. As for smell, can't tell, as it's at the rear of the car and the cabin air intake is at the front. It's such a brief thing that I'd be very surprised to see an oily residue on the inside of the exhaust tips.
BTW, nice descriptions of possible "smoke" clouds. Thanks.
PS: The car will go to the dealer for an oil and transaxle lube change after the breakin period is over (2K miles). If it's still doing it then, I'll complain.
BTW, nice descriptions of possible "smoke" clouds. Thanks.
PS: The car will go to the dealer for an oil and transaxle lube change after the breakin period is over (2K miles). If it's still doing it then, I'll complain.
Oil can come into the combustion chamber through gaskets, rings and seals. If it's gaskets or seals, it happens pretty much all the time. If it's rings, it could be a matter of how the rings have been seated, where the given piston comes to rest and how long oil rests against the rings etc.
I'm still thinking it's nothing.
Let's check back at 60,000 miles and see if the compression is a bit low on one cylinder ... : )
ps. I thought my smoke descriptions were quite illustrative ... describing smoke for a 911 driver is like having words to describe snow for an Eskimo ... : )
#5
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
This is a (more or less) common problem over on the cayman forum as well. It seems that sometimes after hard driving (cornering) some oil ends up sloshing into the intake tract and gets burned off under start up. No big deal it seems. Mantis racing has a oil pan extension that they say helps.
#7
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Chris R.
This is a (more or less) common problem over on the cayman forum as well. It seems that sometimes after hard driving (cornering) some oil ends up sloshing into the intake tract and gets burned off under start up. No big deal it seems. Mantis racing has a oil pan extension that they say helps.
Trending Topics
#8
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Carrera GT
...
Let's check back at 60,000 miles and see if the compression is a bit low on one cylinder ... : )
)
Let's check back at 60,000 miles and see if the compression is a bit low on one cylinder ... : )
)
you dont keep cars that long
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
#9
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by mooty
you dont keep cars that long ![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
(Tahoe Supercharged 130K+ miles )
(Rangie 40K miles)
(Excursion forty thousand bio-diesel driven goodness miles)
(prius 35K+ smiles)
... all sitting outside rusting in the rain as we speak ...
#10
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: White Stone, VA
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I, too, have recently noticed the dense blue/white cloud of burnt engine oil at start-up of my 1,575 miles GT3. It only occurs after the car has sat overnight. It does not appear during subsequent engine starts. I'm not really worried about it. I've had a 2001 Boxster S which did it. But the 2003 Carrera 4S and the 2005 Carrera S did not.
Since we're discussing start-up observations, I'm going to describe another one which causes me greater concern. I've only recently started to hear valve lifter clatter at start-up. After the lifters refill, the tap-tap-tapping noise goes away. The noise lasts for about 5-10 seconds.
Perhaps the lubricant which has drained from the lifters finds it's way into the combustion chamber where it is burned-off at start-up?
Have any other 997 GT3/RS owners encountered that noise at engine start-up?
Carl
Since we're discussing start-up observations, I'm going to describe another one which causes me greater concern. I've only recently started to hear valve lifter clatter at start-up. After the lifters refill, the tap-tap-tapping noise goes away. The noise lasts for about 5-10 seconds.
Perhaps the lubricant which has drained from the lifters finds it's way into the combustion chamber where it is burned-off at start-up?
Have any other 997 GT3/RS owners encountered that noise at engine start-up?
Carl
#11
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by elfer4s
Since we're discussing start-up observations, I'm going to describe another one which causes me greater concern. I've only recently started to hear valve lifter clatter at start-up. After the lifters refill, the tap-tap-tapping noise goes away. The noise lasts for about 5-10 seconds.
Perhaps the lubricant which has drained from the lifters finds it's way into the combustion chamber where it is burned-off at start-up?
Have any other 997 GT3/RS owners encountered that noise at engine start-up?
Carl
Perhaps the lubricant which has drained from the lifters finds it's way into the combustion chamber where it is burned-off at start-up?
Have any other 997 GT3/RS owners encountered that noise at engine start-up?
Carl
#12
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
My 993tt used to do this...My new GT-3 is also (1,100miles) doing the same thing..If it is not idled for a short time before toun off...next start you get a puff of blue. TT never lost any oil between changes (4k). And having just changed the oil in the GT-3 it did not either in its first 1k.
Sidebar: I found it to be just too wierd ,for the first time in my life (56years old,been changing oil since I was 12) I changed oil on a engine that was void of a dipstick or site glass.
Sidebar: I found it to be just too wierd ,for the first time in my life (56years old,been changing oil since I was 12) I changed oil on a engine that was void of a dipstick or site glass.
#14
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Carrera GT
The Cayman problem isn't applicable to the GT3 engine.
If you are going to say that the GT3 is a dry sump then let me stop you right there and let me tell you that I have seen numerous dry sump cars (GT2, TT and a 996 GT3) do the same thing at startup.
Since so many cars are doing it, it would surprise me that there are as many different reasons as to why.
Chris Rouleau
#15
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Whenever we took the Audi in, for the some-odd third time for a loss of oil, the explaination went as such; The extremely close tolerances of the engine, combined with the very thin 0W40 oil, allowed oil to seep past cold gaskets which was burnt off upon starting. This explains why it only occurs for a few seconds then disappears.
I would assume the 3.6L GT3 engine suffers some of the same issues. Like the RS4, it has a high hp/liter ratio of what, 115hp/liter. The RS4 is 100hp/liter. The engine is built to turn 8400rpms daily, and to do so requires some/many consequences. You give up perfect running, no hiccups, clean as a whistle engine, for a 415hp, 8400rpm, monster!
Wes
I would assume the 3.6L GT3 engine suffers some of the same issues. Like the RS4, it has a high hp/liter ratio of what, 115hp/liter. The RS4 is 100hp/liter. The engine is built to turn 8400rpms daily, and to do so requires some/many consequences. You give up perfect running, no hiccups, clean as a whistle engine, for a 415hp, 8400rpm, monster!
Wes