eclou

I will pay anyone here $250 if you can repeatedly turn faster laps in a non-sunroof GT3RS or sunroof-deleted GT3 vs a sunroof-cursed GT3. Both cars must be US spec, similar weights, same tire compounds and conditions, same day same track conditions.

frayed

So wait, I get to flog your car and mine? I'll take that bet.

GrantG

How much will you pay someone if they can fit inside a sunroof-delete car with a helmet when they can't quite fit in a sunroof car

Alan Smithee

Here we go again...it's the principle.

In addition, for me personally, I find the 997's sunroof very poorly designed...mine rattles and thumps constantly, open or closed, and the dealer's fixes are only temporary. It also cannot be opened without having a window cracked or there's ridiculous oscillation above 30mph. After dealing with it for two years I just don't want one if I'm spending $115k+ on a new GT3...I've got a convertible if I want wind in my hair.

eclou

disqualified

BobbyC

This really is the Operative question!

Max Power

Porsche could put 2x 11kg (24lb) cast-iron weights in the front bumper, like they did on the early 911.

Then, the RS would be 92 pounds lighter than the GT3.

MJSpeed

All this bull**** would stop if Porsche would give the buyers the option of getting what they want...

HMS

Porsche is not about giving the buyer what he wants. They are here to make $$$. The beans were counted and the "hole'' won.

MJSpeed

Tell me something I don't know...it still doesn't make it right. Porsche still holds the resolution in their hands...

grussell

What is your point?

NJ-GT

I've cumulative data comparing my car against my consistent competitors at AutoX, showing my car at different weights. Pretty much my car is about 0.3 secs faster per 45 secs AutoX lap for every 100 lbs down. This is a conservative number, a couple of AutoX Pro guys (both of them former National Champions) said it's about 1/2 sec for a 3,000 lbs car.

If the hole hardware weighs those 45 lbs, we'll be looking at 0.14 secs per my estimates, and 0.23 secs per AutoX Pro estimates on an AutoX lap.

I know Autocross and Track are different, but a 45 lbs lighter car will always turn faster lap times. The weight from the open top hardware is at the worse location, so the benefit on removing the weight from the top should be better than the benefit I've found by running lighter seats, no floor mats, no windshield washer fluid.

As a point of reference, Mitsubishi made an Evo VIII and IX MR (Mitsubishi Racing Edition). One of the marketing points was that the MR uses an 8 lbs lighter roof (aluminum). Road & Track took the three Evo VIII and compared them (RS, MR and regular). The MR was faster by a few tenths.

I lost last year SCCA Solo National Championship by 0.7 secs after 2 timed days, 0.35 secs per day. I could use those 0.28 secs to 0.46 secs saved from the roof hardware, plus the faster 997 GT3 to win a National Championship this year.

frayed

NJ, your point is well taken, but the for the vast majority of GT3 owners, sunroof/no sunroof performance is a moot point for track use.

My interest in pulling it out is not a lot different than weight reduction on a mountain bike. Back when I was addicted to mountain biking, I used to pick and replace parts to drop grams. Not b/c I'd be faster around Emma Long (local trail), but b/c it was a challenge and it was fun. Pulling weight out of a car, dropping 100+ pounds is a hobby in itself, and I like the clean look of the seemless roof panel.

I think 5k - 6k is too much, but if it can be done properly for 1500/parts + under 2k labor and paint, then I'm all in.

I do think the CF roof panel isn't worth it, as you give up stock look and maybe save 1-2 lbs.

grussell

+1

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jeff,
you tip the scales now the same as when you were mountain biking?