Alan Smithee

Ease up on the attitude, chief. Just pointing out that the Z8 was successful, as there was demand when new and continues to be today...hardly what one would consider a "flop", even if it doesn't fit your personal definition of "sports car".

My other point was that the R8 was conceived as a 911 competitor. Now that Porsche has interest in the company, why would Porsche "help" evolve the car?

RR

sorry dude,

didn't mean to come off like that...but if it was good, they'd still be building it.

cheers.

R

Alan Smithee

It's cool...

With 7 year old cars retaining 80-90% of their value, I don't think it can be argued that there continues to be demand for the Z8...but whether BMW made enough money on it to justify a successor is another issue entirely. It was more of a testbed for aluminum construction, and once E39 M5 production ceased...along with the fabulous motor...the end was near for the Z8. There were a few Alpina cars with the tweaked standard V8 and auto tranny built because demand for the car was still there, but it wasn't the same.

BMW has been talking about a Z8 successor for a while. The BMW V10 is a sweet motor. I'd love to see that in a sports car competing with the 911 and R8...but as you correctly stated, the market for $100k sports cars is not large, so I doubt they can make a business case for it. Besides, Bangle would screw up the design anyway.

Carrera GT

You're having all the fun! Did you drive the Aston Vantage as well? That's an appealing car. Not in a 911 sense, too luxurious, but sounds perfect.

A friend drove two Gallardo's while shopping for a used one. One felt like the front tyres were flat, the second felt like it had been supercharged and lightened by about 500lbs -- he described it as scary fast and turns in like a race car. The first car was like you'd expect a heavy AWD to feel. The two were so different, well, he smartened up and bought a 911, but he was impressed by the second Gallardo, although it did raise the question of why two near zero mile cars would feel so different -- both were in immaculate condition for sale by the same dealer. His description of the second example was appealing, but too much show for too little go.

///Mous3

At least Audi didn't chicken-out of LeMans like Porsche did.

But if you want "a proven on the racing" car; there is none like the Carrera chassis, making the GT3's and GT3 RS' the real deal.

But I have no doubt that R8 is a bling-bling; not my cup of tea even though I am in So Cal.

///Mous3

Z8 is still sick! It is in another league interms of looking exclusive; period. It doesn't look no-where near mass-produced look.

avocet

Spent a "private" 1/2 hour with an R8 yesterday .............parked in a shed with other exotica in Dubai - all part of a Pirelli testing program (this was next to our porsche club track day event) - the R8 does have a bling / wow factor but that big vertical "slab" panel behind the driver door looks likle the next nissan 350 than something so elegant & aggro as a 911 variant.

Finish & detailing is immaculate though - something the 911's still fall short on - rattles & squeaks anyone ? Interestingly, parked behind the R8 was an Aston Vantage special with options I hadn't seen before (typical for Mid-East) ............... definitely in the same league as the R8 but also not a GT3 / RS competitor .................unless money was no object you wouldn't track either car very hard - both too smart - my wife luv'd them but is not sold on 911's !

Schmidts Cat

I more than anyone, can speak to this Z8 topic/GT3/R8 topic.

I originaly had 2 P cars on order in 2001, a turbo, and a C2 with aero kit. What I really wanted was a gt3 but it wasn't available in the US. When I saw the Z8 I fell in love and bought it on the spot. I canceled the P CARS.

5 years later, I've now ordered an RS (due here next week) and a GT3 due mid March.

Why? Althought the Z8 is awesome. I have done many mods, and tracked it numerous times. But it is not a pure sports car, more an awesome touring car, for roadtrips through mountain passes, and at the same time a muscle car with seemingly endless power. It also meets my desire/love for the classic sports cars from the late fifties and early sixties. It is rare, bbeautiful, and special. I can't part with it, but my itch for a GT3 lives on.

As for being a flop! Never. As stated above, the Z8 was a test bed for new aluminum construction technology. Specifically for RR. The Z8 went out of production because:
1) It was a halo car, not a proffit center for BMW
2) The production line was turned over to Rolls as originally intended
3) The engine was no longer available, as the M5 was out of production

The Z8 which cost 134k new in 01, now goes for about 100k, and prices are climbing. A P turbo of the same vintage and miles, noow goes for about 80k-90k (I think) and continues to drop.

I've loved my 26k mi in the Z8, but lookfoorward to new and diiferent thrills in the RS.

As for the audi, iit's more like the Z8, a special car that does many things well, but is not in my mind a pure sports car.

gtdrei

Are you kidding me ? Have you followed the "frame deflection" issue on the Z8 ?
They're not worth very much now. See :Bmw Frame issue

Or How would you like to be the proud owner of one of those Z8's and experience that stellar factory support ? Audi knows how to build Aluminum cars, BMW is clueless.



Robin

FTS

Here is another detail review of the R8: http://www.windingroad.com/browse-se...=Audi&model=R8

Even though, I'd take the GT3 with its sunroof

eclou

I'd rather have the Gallardo than an R8. The R8 is like Coke C2 or some bastardization. Why not go for the real thing if you are leaning that way? Hell, if you want 4wd then get the 997TT. It offers 99.9% of the GT3/RS performance envelope in the dry, and 2x the performance in bad weather

gtdrei

The Gallardo is all wheel drive, the engine is the real thing. The R8 has the tired Audii 4.2 V8. After 2 A8's, I know how tired this engine is.

Robin

PSC

Carerra

The Vantage is attractive because it has genuine character, unlike say the 997 TT. It's not great in any area but has genuine charm and I liked it more than say the Gallardo, perhaps because I had such high expectations for the Gallardo.

The Vantage reminds me slightly of the Gallardo from the way it handles, they both felt heavy and meaty.

Obviously the Gallardo massively faster, especially re traction on slippery roads.

The other aspects of the Gallardo I didn't like were cramped cockpit (not a safe place to be in a crash for anyone 6ft plus) and lousy turning circle.

In my dream garage I had the Gallardo Spyder pencilled in to partner my RS but now been replaced by Vantage Volante. (The 430 Spyder would stop me using ink).

Got the DB9 Volante at mo, what an elegant, understated beauty!

allegretto

as Frayed said in a previous post;

"...no matter how fast it is, you can't outrun ugly..."

richk

I am with Allegretto on this one. And for the guy quoting retained value on the Z8's, what about all those people who paid way over sticker?