- the dyno is AWE Tunings Mustang Dyno
- I know the dyno from my Audi S4 turbo background
- I know for the audi setup, they do not use Mustang's default settings but their own to lower the torque numbers to be more inline with what they believe to be correct (I have no idea what they are doing or the gt3 setup)

http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/mult...ynotesting.wmv

sport mode
386wheel hp, 283 wheel tq

normal mode
385 wheel hp, 282 wheel tq

overlay
they also have a nice overlay graph showing how the sport mode adds 20 wheel tq between approx 2700rpms and 4200rpms and about 5 to 10 wheel hp in the same range

i'm assuming they will be developing an exhaust system similar and this was a baseline

 

How pleasantly refreshing to read somebody writing about dyno numbers who acknowledges that they are all made up.

R+C

 

At that same place, the following cars were tested.

Larry's 996 GT3 stock with muffler bypass pipes: 391rwhp
Rockitman's 996 GT3 with Europipe mufflers: 372.8 rwhp

I think that the 997 GT3 needs another 5,000 miles to produce higher numbers. These engines get stronger with more miles, I don't know why.

The torque curve looks much better on the 997 GT3. The power curve looks to be ideal between 6,900 rpm and redline, this actually justifies the gearing in the 997 GT3 Cup from 3rd gear and up.

 

Engines get stronger with time because the 1) valves and rings seat in and 2)rotating bits find their happy places (the high points get knocked off or burnished down). 1) reduces blow by during combustion; 2) reduces rolling friction. After more time, the power starts to go the other way as things wear out.

 

This is the story with all engines, but the best of the best loosen up with time. I am unsure if the GT3 is a handbuilt engine, but those which are torqued by humans are pretty funny. They differ in HP by 10-20 throughout the range.

Porsches notoriously do this. The difference in our previous C4S from 1000 miles to 5000 miles was astonoshing. Our current RS4 is even greater. We gained nearly 15whp from just after break in miles to its current 10k miles (11k now, but 10k dyno'ed). Never dyno'ed the C4S, never felt a need. The RS4 boards had a lot of drama about low power, yadda yadda yadda. We dyno'ed ours and it was low at first, but now is above where it should be.

Mercedes E63 is a completely different story (363rwhp on a 507 rated HP engine).

Wes

 

My friend's new 997 GT3 dyno'd at 409bhp, 100% stock (at least for now)...

 

^^ That is simply amazing for an engine rated at 415 hp. Only 6 hp lost through the drivetrain. lol He must have gotten a very strong engine. How many miles were on it at the time of the dyno?

 

Not possible, PAG put every engine on a brake and measure the horsepower ACCURATELY. All engines which make too much or too little horsepower are sent back to the engine plant for re-work.

Remember the Billy Joel song that calls a guy a Real Estate Novelist? The guys who drive chassis dynos can write a helluva good story. Do use the dyno to compare runs rather than fudge up ficticious headline figures.

R+C

 

I wasnt there, so I don't know all the details; but I assumed that figure represented hp at the crank, not at the wheel

Car has some 700miles on it...

 

I'm often confused about the big e-debates over crank hp, wheel hp, engine, or chassis dynos. I think a few posters are missing the big picture.

We have choosen a Mustang AWD. It's a fine product made in the U.S. and used stateside by OEM's like Toyota, GM, and Ford. I would venture to say that all of these companies have similar engineering and testing resources as Porsche, yet they have choosen a Mustang.

That said, finding out whether or not Porsche is conservative with advertised figures is not our goal as a company. We also find it somewhat silly to argue about it. I thought we were all on the same team here...

The main reason for us having a dyno is to see what changes have been made after the modifications we perform. It's a simple process. We baseline test, modify, and re-test. Did we improve? Did we go backwards? Where were the changes.

Second reason for owning a Mustang is the ability to load the rollers. We can simulate varying load conditions for software tuning. This ability is critical for tuning the driveability of software.

I hope this clarifies a few things. I also hope that it cools off some of the heated debates we have seen about dynos.

Thanks for reading.

 

Good stuff.

Now, plan for a Dyno day a Saturday in March or later, and a lot of 997 GT3, 996 GT3, 997TT, 996TT will show up. Then we can go dinner in New Hope.

 

The ball is already in motion...

 

I think I might have opened Pandoras box when I went searching for GT3 rwhp along with CGT rwhp, the dyno numbers are just crazy, doing us all a disservice, I mean these numbers like and by Master Deep Personally I think the losses till the power gets to the road may be as high as 22% the Porsche club here applies a 32% factor to flywheel hp to get an estimate of what the rear wheel hp should be. Has anybody run their 997 Gt3 on a Dyno Dynamics dyno? I'm only interested in power at the rear wheels as power conversions to the flywheel are pretty much close to guesswork in general.

Here's some info on the Dyno Dynamics "Shootout Mode"

The ShootOut mode system is not just a hardware or software upgrade – it is a standardised approach to power measurement, designed to ensure that you can take your car to any accredited workshop and get accurate power measurements for your car. The results will be the same regardless of which ShootOut mode accredited workshop you select. This also means that results from different cars, measured on different dynos can be compared much more accurately which opens a lot of insight to power readings.

ShootOut was developed by Dyno Dynamics primarily to eliminate "Operator Technique" and as a tool for measuring horsepower accurately and CONSISTENTLY for ALL Dyno Dynamics dynos with Shootout accreditation. All dynos with Shootout accreditation have been calibrated the same accross the board, and should not vary more than 1% when comparing between Dyno Dynamics dynos.

Ethical standards
All ShootOut workshops must abide by a code of practice. When a company gets its ShootOut accreditation, it is only leasing the right to use the ShootOut mode and the ShootOut logos on the dynos, which are bgasically the physical and interlectual property of Dyno Dynamics. We are bound by a contractual agreement which is renewed on a yearly basis with very strict guidelines and procedures whenever we use the ShootOut logos on printed dyno graphs. If a company does not adhere to these guidelines, and decides to employ "Operator Techniques" and manipulate the ShootOut process, Dyno Dynamics will issue the company with a warning. After 3 warnings, the company loses their ShootOut Accreditation. Dyno Dynamics expect Dyno Operators to be honest and follow the required procedures in accordance with the ShootOut Agreement between the operator and Dyno Dynamics.

Proof of integrity
1. All ShootOut graph runs must be supervised by an accredited ShootOut scrutineer.
2. When the Shootineer is confident that the run has been performed to Dyno Dynamics’ ShootOut standards, the approved ShootOut logo will be added to the graph.
3. Test conditions and other data is printed on the lower edge of the graph as further evidence of accuracy.
4. When the graph is printed, the Shootineer will apply the official ShootOut stamp and personally sign it.
5. As final proof, the customer is provided with a checklist to verify that all steps in vehicle preparation for the test have been carried out correctly.

Whether you are planning on attending a ‘head to head’ dyno day, or want your vehicle tested to verify the effects of a performance enhancement – A Dyno Dynamics ShootOut accredited workshop will determine the figures accurately, time after time, regardless of location.


End of blurb, despite the marketing which is clearly in the material above, I have tested my car on their dyno and others, the Dyno Dynamics machine always read lower! Quite a bit lower too. I am not stating that anybody here on this list is doing the disshonerable thing,(using operator technique) maybe the Dyno makers are? Who are we fooling? Hopefully not me.

Greg