TimeOfFlight

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum, and like many of you, am currently on the list at my local dealer for a 997 GT3. I have read with interest many of the posts about the lack of a delete sunroof option. Honestly, I didn't know this was the case until visiting this site. I've gotten the distinct impression that it is very important to a lot of us here (some have cancelled their orders), but I'm trying to understand how critical it is, i.e. is this simply a matter of principle, or is it really about performance?

Consider this (albeit simplistic) look:

All numbers for stock, manual transmission, and a sunroof -

996 GT3: 381hp, 3043lbs., power/weight ratio .125
997 GT3: 415hp, 3075lbs., ratio 0.135
997 C2S: 355hp, 3131lbs., ratio .113
997 C2: 325hp, 3075lbs., ratio .106
997 Turbo: 480hp, 3494lbs., ratio .137

So, a couple of thoughts for people to chime in on:

How much weight does the sunroof actually add? And is the added weight offset by more power and improved chassis, suspension, and aerodynamics in the 997 as compared to the 996 GT3?

Assume a sunroof is 50lbs. Deleting it would change the p/w ratio by two one thousanths (.002). Would this difference be noticeable?

The new GT3 and C2 are the same weight, and the C2 has a back seat to haul your kids around in. Where did the weight go? Maybe to the additional heat exchanger?

Dale Gribble

^ it is also an issue of principle, why build a focused car with a roof.
additionally, the location of the 50 pounds is important, it is right at the top of the car, which is bad because it raises the COG somewhat.

also, what is the point of spending 8grand on ultralight PCCB brakes, when for 1000$ less porsche could have acheieved the same weight savings? what was the point of those 6000$ CF seats besides saving weight? a supportive bucket seat out of fiberglass would have been cheap and the weight savings could have come from the roof. If you follow my train of thought, its a combination of handling impact, principle, and financial sense that seems to boggle my mind regarding this "roof" debacle.

Carrera GT

Well, for a first post, I'd say it's a commendable effort. I think all the Porsche forums have tread these threads and worn them thin, but you add some interesting facts and that's worthy of comment.

Along the lines of a Spanish Inquisition from Python, I'd say, amongst our resentment towards Porsche are such diverse causes of complaint as:

* a sunroof is a luxury item and should never be compulsory
* a sunroof was not included in the 996 GT3
* a sunroof restricts headroom often critical in safety when wearing a helmet
* a sunroof is 50lbs of dead weight at the worst point of polar moment
* a sunroof is the antithesis of a sports car
* a sunroof makes the USA version of the GT3 an object of derision

And the bottom line is the way Porsche Cars North America is adding insult to injury by propping up nonsensical excuses and rationalisations to explain away their failure to deliver the performance versions of Porsches year after year.

As for power to weight, it's really the polar moment, not the raw straight line but the cornering. And the sunroof-less GT3 is reported in Excellence at something like 1.4G ...

TimeOfFlight

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Some good points, particularly about the polar moment. Here it is not power to weight but chassis/suspension that would have to compensate.

But then getting back to principles, why compensate on a $100K+ car? I appreciate the enthusiastic petitioning that has begun on this site to sway Porsche. I must admit, though, I'm not optimistic.

Would I delete the sunroof if given the option? Of course. Should I still get the car if I can't? Hmm. By the looks of the waiting list, I'm gonna have a while to think on that one.

TimeOfFlight

Would anyone care to speculate regarding the likelihood that future GT3's (i.e. 2008 or later) might have a sunroof delete option?

roberga

only if 2007 sales are softer then expected.

Dale Gribble

^ which is unlikely.
although, depending on which interpretation of the order guide you subscribe to, the RS may be "sans hole"

TimeOfFlight

I suppose anything is possible. When the new E60 M5 was launched with SMG III as the only available transmission, US buyers complained, and likely had a major role in bringing the now optional 6 speed manual here.

enthusiast

Help us out and write a letter to Porsche AG and/or Porsche Cars North America.

gt3racerich

In addition to writing letters, how about everyone that is on a "list", or has a deposit, call the dealer and tell them you do not want the car becouse it has a sunroof. Pick a day, any day, say Sept. 1 and everyone do it on the same day. I personaly am more concerned with the RS. While I do not think the GT3 should have one, the choice should be there at the very least. I can here it now, you will be afraid you can not get one. With the RS do you want one with a sun roof anyway? I will not buy one if it has one. Either way, I am sure that anyone that still wants to buy one will be able, list or no list. And if you have just a little patience you will get it under sticker price.
Rich

Holger B

You left out that the sunroof is a rattling, creaky POS. I was afraid to use mine in my old 996 because it struggled to open & close from day 1 and that it would eventually be a costly & time consuming repair.

roberga

Holger. you are 100% on that. The rattle drove my wife nuts in my C2. It would rattle every time. I did help her out. I told her that I got the GT3 because it was the only Porsche without a sun roof.

TimeOfFlight

I'd be glad to write PCNA. I searched their website but can't find an address. Anyone have it?

stuka

Do U.S. car press even know about this yet?

I would say that that's a good start...

XSpeedFreakX

Peter Schwarzenbauer, CEO
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Dr. Suite 1000
Atlanta, GA 30328