Nordschleife

Well, it all depends on which yacht club you moor you sailboat at, if you get my drift.

I do not know 'for sure', that the next new 911 will be a 911 or will have 8 cylinders, but I do know that 8 is the next exciting number. I also know that a lot of the types who come out of the design office and walk across to the racing department for a chat, when you arrive in something 'interesting', are seizing on the 8 cylinder block as an excuse to move the engine inside the wheelbase. This was the original plan for the 356 when the car was first mooted in Gmünd 60 years ago.

Porsche's strategic stake in VAG changes everything.

I believe that the best sportcar platform built in Germany is made in Neckarsulm, just up the road from Zuffenhausen. Somebody (no names, no pack drill but their name begins with P) stopped Audi selling their ASF technology to Aston Martin, run by Ulrich Bez, formerly of Porsche. Similarly, Audi went down to Maserati and taught the Italian guys how to build the Quattroporte so that the chassis could be shortened to act as the platform for a sportscar, with the engine in mid-front or mid-rear configuration. VAG even got the rights to 10,000 of these platforms per year, cancelled out of the blue by somebody whose name begins with...... In the mean time Audi is told to develop their new sportscar so that it is 'girly friendly', not confronting the C2 and C4. The TT is upsized, meaning it will not be a meaningful competitor to the Coxster/Gayboy line.

PAG will produce more of its cars on VAG owned lines.

A 911 with the engine inside the wheel base may turn out to be a bit of a handful for marque traditionalists, do not be surprised if the rear end proves to be a harder catch in some circumstances.

R+C

cosmos

Would that "P" also happen to have ran BMW for a time?

Nordschleife

he ran Audi and VAG, previously he was in the family business, lots of wives

MJSpeed

And there is the marketing line...

All this makes business sense...which makes the probability of it happening really high. Of course purist will have to stick with the old or bite the bullet and buy the new. The latter is what PAG is banking on...they'll race the 8's and convince the public that's the way to go based on performance, which we all know it has nothing to do with.

Bob Rouleau

OK, I have to weigh in. The GT3RS won't have plastic windows - not DOT approved. ever ferrari who seems to get away with a lot could not get the plastic window lightweight version of the CS into North America as a street legal car.

It may indeed be a more hard core version of the 997 GT3 targeted to the roughly 650 enthusiasts who bought the GT3 Mk II. Yeah, I know they sent 900 odd cars over but there were only abouot 650 sold to guys like me. Many changed hands in the aftermarket when folks realized they had a relatively uncivilized "scary" car on their hands and a hundred languished on dealer lots. Many because dealers loaded them with useless options no "trackie" would want.
My car has Xenons. Period. Of course it also has real GT3 seats, Scroth harnesses and the Tequipment roll bar.

I am more interested in the 998. Porsche needs a larger engine to keep up with BMW (to name one) in racing. The M3 V8's murdered the GT3s when they raced together. A 4.8 Litre flat 8 would be rather nice in the DP cars too.

I see a 998 as a flat 8 with, as R+C suggests, the engine between the axles. It will be in back, and I am betting they link the new car to the famous 993GT1 and perhaps even the 962. Both those cars had the engine in front of the rear axle. A mid engine layout is a must for a larger 8 cylinder engine .. could they hang two more jugs out behind the car? I doubt it.

There has been no indication that the 997GT3 will be a low volume restricted model. This makes me think it has been softened for broader appeal. I own a GT3 to use it on the track. I have had race cars and want nothing more to do with trucks and trailers. I can drive my car to the track in comfort, turn off the AC, attach the 6 point harness and have fun. As passtimes go, it is way cheaper than a boat (ask me how I know). The fact that my GT3 on Michelin Cups can lap my home track about 10 seconds slower than a GT3 race car driven by a pro (Van Overbeek to be precise) makes me very happy, since I am not Johannes, nor do I play him on TV.

Rgds,

Nordschleife

Bob
I am unaware exactly how many different V8 layouts may be envisaged for some future 911. I do think that the existing V8, from the Cayenne and V10 fom the Audi ('who said Lamborghini? Wash your mouth out with soap and water, boy!') have acquitted themselves well. Perhaps some historian could comment on the history of flat eights, would they need a crank pin offset of 36 degrees, or would you do it flat crank and make an amazing noise?
I understand your reluctance to use trucks and trailers, do you think there is a demand for a race engineered wheel trailer to hitch to your GT3? Its the major fly in the ointment and really why I suggest to people that they do not confuse their track car wiuth their street car.

R+C
PS I think that dealers in Northern America made the GT3 out to be more restricted than it really turned out to be. Until it went to the US, I was unaware of any 'restrictions' on its numbers. There was a natural restriction on GT2 and (I think) GT3 Clubsports, the dealer commission was reduced.

Bob Rouleau

Robin - While the Cayenne V8 has merit, Porsche has a history of flat 8 race engines which do indeed sound very special. Last summer at a Historic Race, there were 3 Porsche 910s (flat 8) which sounded magnificaent.

As to trailers, a number of locals have arranged small trailers to carry wheels. It looks odd but it works. One guy uses a roof rack taking advantage of the built in sockets Porsche provides even on the GT3.

My solution is simple, I store my track wheels and tires with the tire support outfit at the track. For out of region events, there is always someone with an enclosed trailer who will bring along a spare set of wheels for a pal. The tire guys also bring plenty of spare tires for our events. A very nice thing. I admit to being spoiled by this service but it solves the problem neatly.

Regards,

MJSpeed

I don't know that I'd rather stick with the 6 in the rear. The ideal configuration is IMHO rear mid-engined especially if you go the 8 banger route. However most Porsche purists will bawk at the idea of an 8 cylinder 911, but I guess who cares after all like Bob said there's probably only like 650 of us around anyway. Besides most new P-car owners could care less of the company's history and they're definitely not purists...

I guess I envison something more akin to an in between. Something like a rich man's Cayman or a "poor" man's Carrera GT, which of-course I would definitely welcome!! And that my friends would scare the heck out of those Italians and everyone else for that matter!!

Still due to unfortunate circumstances, which I've already discussed, I had to sell my beloved 996 GT3 (BTW my only option were Xenons and a thicker steering wheel). Therefore I'm really hoping for similar if not more hardcore version of the 997 GT3. I'll take whatever they give me and finish the job myself, like I said before, hopefully they (PAG/PCNA) will give me a great head start on it!!

PogueMoHone

The GT3 production quantity was always intended to around 1000 units, and that's what it turned out to be.

The GT2 was the problem car..they kept building it year after year 2002-2005 and still they could onlly sell around 300, but I think Dealer greed killed this car because the first ones were sold at $50K over sticker.

It would appear that the 997 GT3 will not be limited in production.

38D

A flat 8 would be fine in a 911, even if mid engined...like a 917 for the street . A V-8 would not be in keeping with tradition. Of course, all the water cooled 911s are really "pure" as they are not air cooled. Most people got over that tho'.

Nordschleife

but what road going flat eights have there been?

pole position

Piech

928cs

Two 914/8:
One for Ferry ( 60th birthday present).
One for Ferdinand Piëch.

Samuel

Nordschleife

that's a bit like making the costumes for Beauty & The Beast - and about as close to real life too!

Bob Rouleau

Nord - not sure I understand your point. How many V8 road going 911's has Porsche made and or raced? At least the flat 8 has roots in Porsche 911 based mid-rear engined race cars. I don't know whether the 908 was road legal in Europe, it was not over here. I have been told that the current flat 6 cannot be made much larger - it was stetched to 3.9 liters for the Daytona Protoypes. Adding a pair of cylinders would add the requied displacement - as was done in the past. Besides, I love the wail of the flat 8! OTOH, a mid engined flat crank V8 would not be a disaster either (see Ferrari 430), but it would be a huge departure from 911 tradition.

Rgds,