992 GT3 vs 997.1 GT3 Thoughts :)
09-04-2022, 04:02 PM
#31
Had a 981 GT4 in the past, have a 718 GT4 (which I will soon be selling) now. Definitely get the 981 if you get a GT4 and then drive it as-is or plow some of the delta into a re-gear and other bits (headers, toe links). Can't complain about either on the track, but on the street, a stock 981 is just OK, stock 718 is bordering on bland. 981 with the right mods is a riot albeit in a different way than a 997; you will never be able to replicate hydraulic steering, rear engine feel (for better or worse), or the heavy clutch.
On the street, the only thing the 991.2 has over either is the engine. That engine is really great (sacrilege, but I even prefer it to the Mezger), but not 2x the money great. Maybe if the 991.2 had the (heavier) steering and clutch of the 981...that'd be the one.
Regardless, like you, I'm looking for more of a road car (still some occasional track use) this time around and therefore I'm aggressively starting to look for a 997 so that should tell you what I think (and want) overall.
On the street, the only thing the 991.2 has over either is the engine. That engine is really great (sacrilege, but I even prefer it to the Mezger), but not 2x the money great. Maybe if the 991.2 had the (heavier) steering and clutch of the 981...that'd be the one.
Regardless, like you, I'm looking for more of a road car (still some occasional track use) this time around and therefore I'm aggressively starting to look for a 997 so that should tell you what I think (and want) overall.
I have a friend with both 997.2 GT3 and a GT4 so going to try both
09-04-2022, 05:03 PM
#32
Really interesting read.
Just in the process of selling my 991.1 GT3 here in the UK and thinking what next.
My personal stance is that: Really ALL GT cars have more performance than you can fully exploit on a back road. I race caterham 7 in a championship, that's where I get my track kicks. So I'm in the market for a fast road car, something that feels alive and special even at socially acceptable speeds.
992 is silly money here, not paying £100k overs. 991.2 a contender. However a nice cared for non clubsport 997.2 really appeals, ideally one with pccb and folding buckets in leather. My Taycan lands next year, so my GT3 can be more weekend only. I'd install a aftermarket head unit for Waze etc (police warnings etc a must) for a glimpse of modernity.
Gt4 would also fit, but it'd 100% need a gear set and flywheel IMHO and that closes the gap to a GT3.
Thoughts?
Just in the process of selling my 991.1 GT3 here in the UK and thinking what next.
My personal stance is that: Really ALL GT cars have more performance than you can fully exploit on a back road. I race caterham 7 in a championship, that's where I get my track kicks. So I'm in the market for a fast road car, something that feels alive and special even at socially acceptable speeds.
992 is silly money here, not paying £100k overs. 991.2 a contender. However a nice cared for non clubsport 997.2 really appeals, ideally one with pccb and folding buckets in leather. My Taycan lands next year, so my GT3 can be more weekend only. I'd install a aftermarket head unit for Waze etc (police warnings etc a must) for a glimpse of modernity.
Gt4 would also fit, but it'd 100% need a gear set and flywheel IMHO and that closes the gap to a GT3.
Thoughts?
Depends if you want the latest and greatest or something with character and feel.
For a weekend car with drama at all speeds it has to be a 997 for me.
Newer isn't always better, I'd take a 992 touring as a daily though!
Edit to add, don't rule out the gen 1, Porsche brining out the pccm classic next year, car play etc.
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Robocop305 (03-07-2023)
09-04-2022, 06:35 PM
#33
Have a Taycan GTS Sport Turismo landing next year, so can woosh along with all the tech you can need
but its cool to be able to crack the garage open to be greeted by a wing and go make some noise
but its cool to be able to crack the garage open to be greeted by a wing and go make some noise
09-23-2022, 11:29 AM
#35
Originally Posted by SS964
What gearbox do you have in the 992
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Robocop305 (03-07-2023)
09-26-2022, 09:02 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I traded my pts 992 t for a 997.2 rs. Dream car. The 992 amazing car, fun, comfy, fast and well it’s kinda boring. The limited time I get to enjoy a sports car the more I want to feel like im driving the car. The 992, amazing fast 100% performs better than anything previous. However, I can get another someday and for the time being I want all the feelings when I drive. I am a air cooled owner also, so that may not help the 992.
if I was able to daily a porsche, I would keep the 992. However work doesn’t allow that for a few more years.
if I was able to daily a porsche, I would keep the 992. However work doesn’t allow that for a few more years.
Last edited by prl; 09-26-2022 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Spelling
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09-26-2022, 09:10 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
I traded my pts 992 t for a 997.2 rs. Dream car. The 992 amazing car, fun, comfy, fast and well it’s kinda boring. The limited time I get to enjoy a sports car the more I want to feel like im driving the car. The 992, amazing fast 100% performs better than anything previous. However, I can get another someday and for the time being I want all the feelings when I drive. I am a air cooled owner also, so that may not help the 992.
if I was able to daily a porsche, I would keep the 992. However work doesn’t allow that for a few more years.
if I was able to daily a porsche, I would keep the 992. However work doesn’t allow that for a few more years.
I feel the same way about my 993 Turbo : fast, gorgeous in design, too soft and in-engaging to drive. To me - the 997.1 GT3 is 100x the fun 🤩 and I am not a track guy.
The 992 GT3 T is a true engineering marvel and a stunning car, it makes for an outstanding daily or bi-weekly driver while enjoying the thrill of its absolute perfection.
appreciate this thread a lot -
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03-05-2023, 10:03 AM
#38
Did you ever do the D4 package? Thanks
12-02-2023, 06:29 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
I know this thread is over a year old,... but I stumbled across it while searching for the right place to post ... so here I am ... and maybe tcomegna's conversation continues (& evolves),...
..... especially since many of you, during this discussion, brought up a few other options too (993's, 964's, GT4, 991's in various models,... especially since I still own a 964 Turbo, and will never get rid of that car either)
So I'm sitting here,... deciding to hammer away on my key board,... mostly cuz its fun to think back to the adventure I had several months back.
My story is based on a moment that ended up being a shock to me,... hence I wanted to share for the purposes of car comparisons,.. & to highlight the vast differences in what other people "value" in their own personal driving experiences....
I did a Smokey Mtn / Tail-of / Back-of-the-Dragon excursion back in late August. 6 days, 5 nights - 6 cars, 10 friends. All backroads from MD, down thru West Virginia / VA, and into NC region. We drove all the famously named roads & more.
Here's the thing. While down there (stayed at Tapoco Lodge for a few nights & just kept driving all the great twisties in that area), I swapped rides with a buddy of mine, who has a modified 991.2 Targa4S (almost 600 hp). We drove each others cars on both the Cherohala Skyway & Tail-O-Dragon so we would have enough hours to really get a broad range of curves & straightaways & be able to really push each car & get to know it.
I felt ALL the things you guys have preached / spoke about / described in this entire forum. His T4S was big, bloated, the steering was reeeeeally heavy for my likes. Sure the modified exhaust was loud & sounded cool (good tailpipe sound & turbo whine too),... But overall I just did not like the car at all. It was WORLDS apart from my 997.2 GT3. I FULLY expected to ruin him. I thought he would get out of my car & be like "OMG, I never knew what I was missing,... blah, blah, blah"....
That did not happen. He got out & the first thing he said was that my steering was way too "Twitchy" (my car is stock except Sharkwerks BP, and has PCCB's). He added: not only did the front end & steering feel too light, the entire car felt too light for him. He said that when we were on the tight curves of the Tail/Dragon, the car scared him & felt like it just was not planted because of the lightness. He much preferred the heavy weight feel of his car.
After months now of thinking back to that trip (which was Bucket List for me, and would do it again with those guys in a heartbeat),... I recall two additional things: 1) when I first got into his car & started it up, the music was blaring out his sound system (Burmester, which I have in my Cayenne too, so I know how good that is),... but it shocked me cuz I NEVER ONCE turned any music on in my GT3 over the entire 6 days. Not once. It was all windows down, 2,000 miles of full-on Mezger for me. Anyway,... that told me something about the kind of driving he enjoys....his favorites tunes playing, with the cars engine sound in the background (which maybe why he put such a louder exhaust on the car, so he could at least somewhat hear it over his music, Lol).
... Number 2) was that while he was driving my GT3 on the ToD, he ended up waaaaay behind me after a few miles. I slowed way down a couple times so he could catch up & I could also have some fun seeing my own car in the rear view mirror. I was quite a bit faster than him in his T4S. On its own, that isn't really anything to make a point out of,... and maybe he just wanted to be respectful of my car,.... but in the end I was pushing his car,... so my thoughts were, hey why not keep up.
Since that time, my buddy has gone out & driven a bunch of other 911 variants, all newer cars, as he has been toying with the idea of a different experience. He drove a 991.2 GT3 manual & said he absolutely loved it. Go figure.
anyway,.... in the end,.... I just tosssed this up to the fact that there are SO MANY more people out there who will never grow to appreciate the tactile raw / visceral platform like the 997 / 3.
Different strokes for diff folks. Everyone has their own use case scenarios,... and even tho we on here cannot fathom that anyone would not see the true brilliance in a 997 GT3,... it does exist out there.
carry on....
=Steve
..... especially since many of you, during this discussion, brought up a few other options too (993's, 964's, GT4, 991's in various models,... especially since I still own a 964 Turbo, and will never get rid of that car either)
So I'm sitting here,... deciding to hammer away on my key board,... mostly cuz its fun to think back to the adventure I had several months back.
My story is based on a moment that ended up being a shock to me,... hence I wanted to share for the purposes of car comparisons,.. & to highlight the vast differences in what other people "value" in their own personal driving experiences....
I did a Smokey Mtn / Tail-of / Back-of-the-Dragon excursion back in late August. 6 days, 5 nights - 6 cars, 10 friends. All backroads from MD, down thru West Virginia / VA, and into NC region. We drove all the famously named roads & more.
Here's the thing. While down there (stayed at Tapoco Lodge for a few nights & just kept driving all the great twisties in that area), I swapped rides with a buddy of mine, who has a modified 991.2 Targa4S (almost 600 hp). We drove each others cars on both the Cherohala Skyway & Tail-O-Dragon so we would have enough hours to really get a broad range of curves & straightaways & be able to really push each car & get to know it.
I felt ALL the things you guys have preached / spoke about / described in this entire forum. His T4S was big, bloated, the steering was reeeeeally heavy for my likes. Sure the modified exhaust was loud & sounded cool (good tailpipe sound & turbo whine too),... But overall I just did not like the car at all. It was WORLDS apart from my 997.2 GT3. I FULLY expected to ruin him. I thought he would get out of my car & be like "OMG, I never knew what I was missing,... blah, blah, blah"....
That did not happen. He got out & the first thing he said was that my steering was way too "Twitchy" (my car is stock except Sharkwerks BP, and has PCCB's). He added: not only did the front end & steering feel too light, the entire car felt too light for him. He said that when we were on the tight curves of the Tail/Dragon, the car scared him & felt like it just was not planted because of the lightness. He much preferred the heavy weight feel of his car.
After months now of thinking back to that trip (which was Bucket List for me, and would do it again with those guys in a heartbeat),... I recall two additional things: 1) when I first got into his car & started it up, the music was blaring out his sound system (Burmester, which I have in my Cayenne too, so I know how good that is),... but it shocked me cuz I NEVER ONCE turned any music on in my GT3 over the entire 6 days. Not once. It was all windows down, 2,000 miles of full-on Mezger for me. Anyway,... that told me something about the kind of driving he enjoys....his favorites tunes playing, with the cars engine sound in the background (which maybe why he put such a louder exhaust on the car, so he could at least somewhat hear it over his music, Lol).
... Number 2) was that while he was driving my GT3 on the ToD, he ended up waaaaay behind me after a few miles. I slowed way down a couple times so he could catch up & I could also have some fun seeing my own car in the rear view mirror. I was quite a bit faster than him in his T4S. On its own, that isn't really anything to make a point out of,... and maybe he just wanted to be respectful of my car,.... but in the end I was pushing his car,... so my thoughts were, hey why not keep up.
Since that time, my buddy has gone out & driven a bunch of other 911 variants, all newer cars, as he has been toying with the idea of a different experience. He drove a 991.2 GT3 manual & said he absolutely loved it. Go figure.
anyway,.... in the end,.... I just tosssed this up to the fact that there are SO MANY more people out there who will never grow to appreciate the tactile raw / visceral platform like the 997 / 3.
Different strokes for diff folks. Everyone has their own use case scenarios,... and even tho we on here cannot fathom that anyone would not see the true brilliance in a 997 GT3,... it does exist out there.
carry on....
=Steve
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12-02-2023, 10:38 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
I really enjoyed the thoughtful response from @bweSteve and I definitely have more than a few friends who would also side with the 991.2 owner.
I personally think the people who love the 997 generation most are the ones who were raised on G Bodies, 964s, 993s, and 996s. If you're later to the party, then the newer cars are going to be that much easier for you to drive and enjoy, whereas the people who love the classic 911 experience pretty much stop at the 997. That's not to say that we cannot appreciate Porsches that came later on (we can!), but our heart pulls us to what we originally fell in love with...and the 997 is the last real form of that where it's obviously based on the original experience. It's probably good that there is an *** for every seat or Porsche wouldn't sell too many 911s anymore!
I personally think the people who love the 997 generation most are the ones who were raised on G Bodies, 964s, 993s, and 996s. If you're later to the party, then the newer cars are going to be that much easier for you to drive and enjoy, whereas the people who love the classic 911 experience pretty much stop at the 997. That's not to say that we cannot appreciate Porsches that came later on (we can!), but our heart pulls us to what we originally fell in love with...and the 997 is the last real form of that where it's obviously based on the original experience. It's probably good that there is an *** for every seat or Porsche wouldn't sell too many 911s anymore!
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12-03-2023, 01:03 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
well said & totally agree Steve. I started out with a 914 in the 80's, '79 911 SC back in the early 90's,... then moved to the 964 platform,... and you're right, I'll be stopping (ownership) with the 997. I still enjoy trying out the newer stuff, but don't think I could ever put money down for any of them.
And that actually includes a car that I really thought I would love.... which is....
While on our Dragon trip I also got to drive a buddies 718 Spyder. I think the shape & curves of that car are beautiful from every angle,... and the bonus of containing some GT3 internals drew me in. Then I drove it. The car performs phenomenally well in most every category (& it really hit me when folks say a car is just "too good"). But what disappointed me most were the engine noises. It did not do anything for me. From the very first romp, I quickly determined that the low & grovely engine sounds did not appeal to me at all. I then immediately hoped the power delivery, steering, etc would appeal..... it did not. It reminded me of what one of you guys said many years ago (when I first figured out I needed a 997 GT3),.. which was that our cars can be quite civil up to about 8/10's,... upon which its gets quite angry. That's where it really comes alive like no other car. Plus the 997 Mezger wail has truly ruined me to anything else.
So I get to scratch that car off my drive-&-evaluate list too.
anyway,.... thought I would share that one as well.
And that actually includes a car that I really thought I would love.... which is....
While on our Dragon trip I also got to drive a buddies 718 Spyder. I think the shape & curves of that car are beautiful from every angle,... and the bonus of containing some GT3 internals drew me in. Then I drove it. The car performs phenomenally well in most every category (& it really hit me when folks say a car is just "too good"). But what disappointed me most were the engine noises. It did not do anything for me. From the very first romp, I quickly determined that the low & grovely engine sounds did not appeal to me at all. I then immediately hoped the power delivery, steering, etc would appeal..... it did not. It reminded me of what one of you guys said many years ago (when I first figured out I needed a 997 GT3),.. which was that our cars can be quite civil up to about 8/10's,... upon which its gets quite angry. That's where it really comes alive like no other car. Plus the 997 Mezger wail has truly ruined me to anything else.
So I get to scratch that car off my drive-&-evaluate list too.
anyway,.... thought I would share that one as well.
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12-03-2023, 08:10 AM
#43
I posted this in the 992 GT3 section after my friend gave me the opportunity to swap my 997 GT3 with this 992 GT3 on a backroad drive:
https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...l#post19103551
Both are amazing cars, depends on what you want. If I had the financial means and the connections to be able to get new GT cars, I'd absolutely have them in my garage alongside a 997. I think the 997 will always be my fav generation of 911 due to nostalgic reasons and also just what you get. For instance, I'm a safety freak first, so I want something that at a minimum has airbags in it and let me admit it first, I'm not a driver that has hundreds of track hours and knows everything about vehicle dynamics, so having some form of driver aid systems can be helpful. My vehicle dynamics experience comes from 10+ years of Ohio winter driving, specifically when I was driving 20k miles/yr. I'm also not a fast driver, I enjoy 30% throttle going up and down the rev range, not breaking laws and still feeling like I'm engaged with the car. Heck, when I'm just pulling out of my neighborhood and am doing 25mph, I appreciate how the car feels then.
@bweSteve - your friends and your evaluation is super interesting and I agree that we all like certain things. I have friends that have zero appreciation for 911's whatsoever. I get comments from them of "you're missing a couple cylinders", or "why would you want a car that rides that harsh" or "it has no low end torque". That's fine, they like big V8 BMW's, V10 Lambo's or V12 Ferrari's. I also have friends, one of which owns a Ferrari and a Porsche and he totally gets the 997 GT3. We've given each other the opportunity to drive each other's cars and we each appreciate them for what they are, even though I don't own a Ferrari and he doesn't own a GT3. But we come back to what we own as being right for us. For many, the 991 or 992 is a great car. The fact that you still get feel in a 991 or 992 GT car yet it's way easier to drive and forgiving is something amazing. Now, I will say that when I owned my 997 C2S PDK, I didn't like it for how I was using the car. It should have been my daily driver with how easy it was to drive. I felt that every time I drove it, it felt way too similar to my Audi S4 at the time. When I drove my Audi, I then felt like I could be doing this in the 911. The 991 C2S I drove felt better, but that was on a short test drive. The 992 C4S I drove felt good, but that was on a track at Mid Ohio. For many, they just want a cool fun sports car to drive around town in and for that a 991.2 T4S is great. If you want maximum feel though, give me a 997 GT3. I don't think it gets better. By the way, hope you're doing well!
https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...l#post19103551
Both are amazing cars, depends on what you want. If I had the financial means and the connections to be able to get new GT cars, I'd absolutely have them in my garage alongside a 997. I think the 997 will always be my fav generation of 911 due to nostalgic reasons and also just what you get. For instance, I'm a safety freak first, so I want something that at a minimum has airbags in it and let me admit it first, I'm not a driver that has hundreds of track hours and knows everything about vehicle dynamics, so having some form of driver aid systems can be helpful. My vehicle dynamics experience comes from 10+ years of Ohio winter driving, specifically when I was driving 20k miles/yr. I'm also not a fast driver, I enjoy 30% throttle going up and down the rev range, not breaking laws and still feeling like I'm engaged with the car. Heck, when I'm just pulling out of my neighborhood and am doing 25mph, I appreciate how the car feels then.
@bweSteve - your friends and your evaluation is super interesting and I agree that we all like certain things. I have friends that have zero appreciation for 911's whatsoever. I get comments from them of "you're missing a couple cylinders", or "why would you want a car that rides that harsh" or "it has no low end torque". That's fine, they like big V8 BMW's, V10 Lambo's or V12 Ferrari's. I also have friends, one of which owns a Ferrari and a Porsche and he totally gets the 997 GT3. We've given each other the opportunity to drive each other's cars and we each appreciate them for what they are, even though I don't own a Ferrari and he doesn't own a GT3. But we come back to what we own as being right for us. For many, the 991 or 992 is a great car. The fact that you still get feel in a 991 or 992 GT car yet it's way easier to drive and forgiving is something amazing. Now, I will say that when I owned my 997 C2S PDK, I didn't like it for how I was using the car. It should have been my daily driver with how easy it was to drive. I felt that every time I drove it, it felt way too similar to my Audi S4 at the time. When I drove my Audi, I then felt like I could be doing this in the 911. The 991 C2S I drove felt better, but that was on a short test drive. The 992 C4S I drove felt good, but that was on a track at Mid Ohio. For many, they just want a cool fun sports car to drive around town in and for that a 991.2 T4S is great. If you want maximum feel though, give me a 997 GT3. I don't think it gets better. By the way, hope you're doing well!
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12-03-2023, 08:25 AM
#44
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I previously had a 996 GT3 street car. I also track a 996 Cup, and own a 981 Boxster Spyder. So I’ve had a bit of a “modern Porsche” ownership experience. However for me the 993 daily driver is my favorite. I can’t see ever selling it as long as I’m fit enough to get in and out of it. It really is that special. Get one!
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Steve Theodore (12-03-2023)
12-03-2023, 09:37 AM
#45
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