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Any 997 GT owners in here that also own 993s? Come on in!
Hello all,
I have decided that I want to get a later model air-cooled 911 to join my small collection, and would like to do so while prices still seem 'reasonable'. I've narrowed down my decision to a 964 C2 or a 993 C2, and have decided the 993 is likely the better overall car for me.
Could any 997 GT car owners give me some pointers about whether my thinking is correct? I mean I think either 964 or 993 would scratch my itch for an air cooled 911 without issue, but I feel like the 993 is both a better overall value in the current market and I'd probably like it more overall due to my longtime love of 997s. Please help if you have related experience, and my intended use case is more daily driver and fun car than track weapon. I run a specialty car dealership and the 993 is intended to be my daily runabout (for nicer days), but also a part of my long term personal collection.
Thanks all!
Last edited by Steve Theodore; 10-20-2021 at 03:33 PM.
I'm not selling either of mine, not to worry! I've been reading in Excellence that the 993 is one of the most reliable air cooled 911s, meaning nothing I've read so far has mentioned the issues you just did. I need to keep reading.
I've had a 997 GT3 for nearly 4 years now and just added a 98 993 C2S in July of last year. I've never driven a 964 but much prefer the shape of the 993. I think the 993 is an awesome car to putz around town in. Night and day in terms of performance compared to a 997 GT car but very civilized and comfortable to commute around town in. Most of the common issues with the 993s have to do with oil leaks which really isn't a big deal. The major issue that people talk about is valve guide wear and needing a top end rebuild that can run anywhere from $10-20K. When I was researching cars most people just recommended getting a leak down and compression test to gauge the health of the engine but I think it really has more to do with oil consumption. I don't think you can go wrong with either a 964 or 993 and have no doubt it'll be a great addition to your already awesome collection.
I owned a 96 993 and actually sold it to get into my 997 GT3. I loved that car, still miss it from day to day. I have also driven quite a few 964s. They are definitely simpler but thats the reason I bought a 993 when I did. The value is hard to beat and I felt like the few more modern amenities that came with them, such as better headlights, were better suited to me. Both need suspension work and exhaust work to be fully enjoyable, but thats just me. Either way you cant go wrong with either!
Steve, you will be living the dream to have your collection of GT cars, and an air cooled 911 (of any kind). I've owned two 993s in the past and both were amazing.....so much so that I will be looking for another in the future (but have a full blown longhood RSR project going at the moment). PM me for any info on 993s...... Also, for a first aircooled 911, I would also consider 1984 to 1989 911s...the Carrera 3.2 .....these are also superb cars, especially the 87-89s with the G50 transmissions.
I've owned 3 993s over the years and they are awesome cars. Looks are subjective, but for a "daily runabout" the suspension on the 993 is levels above the 964 (I've owned 3 of those as well). If you get a Varioram example (96+), the torque difference in the mid-RPM is also quite noticeable. The 993 cabin is put together better, clearly more thought went into it, even it was just a "refresh."
A 993 would make a great sidekick to your 997, if it's fully sorted. Don't forget, you're looking at 25-year-old cars, and while quite reliable, there are issues that will creep up - suspension overhauls, steering racks, alternators, clutch jobs, engine rebuilds, immobilizers, the list can be painfully long and expensive.
The other thing that would make me hesitant about buying any air-cooled car is that they wildly overpriced at the moment, for the experience they deliver.
I greatly appreciate the comments and feedback. I agree with the term 'overpriced', but the reality of that is that the dollar is weakening a lot lately and so it does make me openly wonder if the prices on some of these older and sought after cars will ever return to what we thought were normal levels. My crystal ball has been wrong before!
I've just added a 993 to the small collection - vastly different car to the GT3 and 997's but with a charm all of its own. After owning it for less than 48 hours I went on a road trip of roughly 1000 miles - no worries at all. Get a good one and you won't be sorry. Age notwithstanding the car is incredibly usable and easily copes with speed humps and kerbs which would see the 997s running for cover. The PCCM is a fantastic update and I'd highly recommend one if you plan on regular usage.
I've just added a 993 to the small collection - vastly different car to the GT3 and 997's but with a charm all of its own. After owning it for less than 48 hours I went on a road trip of roughly 1000 miles - no worries at all. Get a good one and you won't be sorry. Age notwithstanding the car is incredibly usable and easily copes with speed humps and kerbs which would see the 997s running for cover. The PCCM is a fantastic update and I'd highly recommend one if you plan on regular usage.
Thanks for the great feedback and also your own use case. I do plan to treat my future 993 as a 'real world car', meaning it will get used as a shop car for my dealership and driven on nicer days with regularity. I think it is the right overall choice for my little collection, and appreciate hearing more comments that might lead me to that conclusion too.
I greatly appreciate the comments and feedback. I agree with the term 'overpriced', but the reality of that is that the dollar is weakening a lot lately and so it does make me openly wonder if the prices on some of these older and sought after cars will ever return to what we thought were normal levels. My crystal ball has been wrong before!
I think it has more to do with supply and demand than the currency. And "overpriced" was indicative to what you get for your money. Which, for $80k+ for a run-of-the-mill narrow body 993, isn't much. A 987 Spyder, for instance, is a lot more fun for less money and will definitely be a lot less of a headache from an ownership perspective, long term. Frankly, right now I would advise anyone against buying an air-cooled car. Not only are they expensive, but the shops that work on them have also started charging an arm and a leg for maintenance and repairs. What used to be a $2K brake job and fluid change a few years back is now a $5K bill. Everybody wants to wet their beak.
I think it has more to do with supply and demand than the currency. And "overpriced" was indicative to what you get for your money. Which, for $80k+ for a run-of-the-mill narrow body 993, isn't much. A 987 Spyder, for instance, is a lot more fun for less money and will definitely be a lot less of a headache from an ownership perspective, long term. Frankly, right now I would advise anyone against buying an air-cooled car. Not only are they expensive, but the shops that work on them have also started charging an arm and a leg for maintenance and repairs. What used to be a $2K brake job and fluid change a few years back is now a $5K bill. Everybody wants to wet their beak.
I was only suggesting one way to think about the issue, but you may certainly be right or it's a combination of a bunch of things...which is almost certainly the case.
I think the issue I'm having is that nothing interacts quite like the air cooled cars. Sure, they are slower and all of that, but the hand built era is just so special. I want some of that magic in my life...as my earliest memories are also of air cooled 911s and I do love the way they make you feel when behind the wheel. I hear you loud and clear about prices though, of everything related to them! It's rough!
I currently own a 997.1 GT2 and a 1997 993TT with a GT2 rear wheel drive conversion. I have also owned a 1991 964 turbo. That is the one car I regret selling. The 993 and 964 are great cars and you will not go wrong with either. The 993 is a more refined car than the 964. I actually drive the 993 more often than the GT2.
I currently own a 997.1 GT2 and a 1997 993TT with a GT2 rear wheel drive conversion. I have also owned a 1991 964 turbo. That is the one car I regret selling. The 993 and 964 are great cars and you will not go wrong with either. The 993 is a more refined car than the 964. I actually drive the 993 more often than the GT2.
Thank you for the great reply. It's my hope to use the future 993 pretty regularly as well, whereas my GT cars are to remain special treats for special days.
I've had a 997 GT3 for nearly 4 years now and just added a 98 993 C2S in July of last year. I've never driven a 964 but much prefer the shape of the 993. I think the 993 is an awesome car to putz around town in. Night and day in terms of performance compared to a 997 GT car but very civilized and comfortable to commute around town in. Most of the common issues with the 993s have to do with oil leaks which really isn't a big deal. The major issue that people talk about is valve guide wear and needing a top end rebuild that can run anywhere from $10-20K. When I was researching cars most people just recommended getting a leak down and compression test to gauge the health of the engine but I think it really has more to do with oil consumption. I don't think you can go wrong with either a 964 or 993 and have no doubt it'll be a great addition to your already awesome collection.
I'm still waiting for you to get bored so I can buy it. Would love to find a Vusuvio 993 to buy. Just sold my turbo, so wills tart looking
10-18-2021, 12:20 PM
Any 997 GT owners in here that also own 993s? Come on in!
Would love to find a Vusuvio 993 to buy. Just sold my turbo, so wills tart looking