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Great words as always Chris and congratulations on the car my friend! Sad to hear that you moved and won't be able to see you around anymore, but you are blessed with much better weather down there and better driving roads! You have the ultimate 2-car solution.
Chris - now that you've had the 4RS for a bit, how are you liking it? Would you be giving up a 997 GT product for it, if you only had one car? Thanks, Joe
I’m also curious: is the sound too much? As in, requires ear plugs for longer drives? (I use earplugs in my 2.2S and 308 GT4 so there’s no shame in that!)
I have tried to keep this thread mostly focused on the GT2 but happy to offer impressions on the GT4 RS. I actually thought i had done a write up but seems I haven't. I have a little over 2K miles on the car she she landed and here's my thoughts.
Initial impressions:
When the car first arrived and I put some miles on, I had a few concerns. First and foremost, how loud it was. Let's not mince words; at 5K and above WOT, it's F'ng LOUD! I will caveat that I have very sensitive hearing and that may be part of it. I had a few days where I thought maybe the car would be a short timer but those concerns have waned the more I drove the car. I realized that runs up to WOT on the street aren't every single minute of every single drive. In fact, if you are shifting and in midrange to 7k, it's not bad at all. Further, I purchased a set of earplugs that only filter a bit of noise. I can still hear the stereo and the outside so it only takes the edge off the sound at the top end. I only need them when I'm driving the car in anger for extended periods. They help a lot. Second concern was the level of stiffness in the suspension. It's a non-issue. I actually quite like it now. It's not a whole lot firmer than the GT2 with DSC, solid arms and semi-solid engine mounts. Rebound is faster, which is also good but more on that in a bit. Third, the short gearing. At 80mph, the car is in the high 3K range and a bit buzzy. I've come to the conclusion that the car can be driven on an all day road trip but that it's just a bit more fatiguing than the GT2. Maybe it should be; it's an RS after all.
Cockpit:
Many on RL and other places have commented that the interior is already dated given that it comes from a car that's been around largely unchanged since the 981 GT4. I loved the interior of my GT4 and I love the interior of this car. It is small, intimate and has only those bits necessary to the driving experience. There are only a few buttons and the ones there help tailor the car to your liking. The Alcantara dash that is part of the Weissach Pack pushes the car up a bit in quality / feel. It reminds me of one of the F cars (458?) that I drove that had similar surfaces. The driving position is low; the buckets are firm; the visibility generally pretty good. With the rear wing in high aero mode though, it definitely blocks a bit of the view. For those old enough to remember, it kind of reminds me of Raul Julia's line from The Gumball Rally: "What is behinda me, is a not important!"
Exterior Looks:
I think the car is sexy as hell. I still look back at both cars in the garage literally every time I go into/come out of the house. I feel lucky/grateful that I own both the 4RS and GT2 every damn day. The exposed CF bits look amazing. Swan neck wing really completes the rear end so well.
Drivetrain:
This is what truly sets this car apart from anything that came before it and likely anything that will come after it. The 981 GT4's engine was a disappointment; it's transmission gearing simply too long. In spite of that, it's still a great car though. The 718 GT4 went a long way to improve upon this by putting in the 4.0L motor and offering the PDK as an option to help with the gearing complaint. I drove one for a week on a trip down to LA and it gave a very good inclination of what would be possible when Porsche finally made this car. The reality does not disappoint. The current GT3 engine is a masterpiece. The current PDK with short gearing made for the 4RS just takes the insane nature of the car to the next level. Point the car in any direction and mash the throttle and hang on for dear life. It grabs and pulls HARD. This car comes out of tight corners so hard it's laugh inducing. Flip the stick over to the left and start grabbing paddles and you'll get a rapid fire BRAP BRAP BRAP on upshift and downshift that is addicting. It's loud but you just want more of it...even when your ears are ringing. The pull above 6K feels like the car is coming on to cam and then exploding with acceleration. The character of both really suit the chassis and make for a unique driving experience. Even at idle, you get a strong vibration through the seat of the bucket, complete with some mechanical cacophony reminiscent of the Mezger hanging off the back of the 997RS cars. It's quite an achievement.
Chassis:
There's a lot to like here but also some characteristics that separate the 4RS from The GT3 in terms of accessibility. I am pretty sure that's by design. As mentioned, the car is stiff and has very quick rebound. On big bumps, the rear end can get a bit squirrelly and unsettled. What is likely a negative on street is a big plus on track. I hope to prove this out with a track day soon. The steering is incredibly precise and the mid engine platform truly feels like it's rotating on your hips. I've also had to unlearn a bit of my 911 habits of trail braking into corners to get the nose to bite. The 4RS (on the street at least) doesn't need it. It has a ton of nose grip. Further, the right pedal provides plenty of rotation if you want the rear end to swing around. On a smooth road, the car is a weapon, capable of immense mechanical grip, poise and control.
Brakes:
As you can probably guess after reading this thread, I'm a big fan of PCCB's especially since I'm not tracking a whole lot anymore. Bite and stopping power of the upsized rotors on this car is immense. I can't imagine anyone characterizing brake feel on this car as "wooden" which is what many complain about with PCCB's. When the stock pads wear out, I'll move to the same RSC1's that are on the GT2 because they have even better feel. If I was going to track this car a lot, I'd swap on a set of Surface Transforms rotors and box the OEM ones. With maybe 1 or 2 track days a year, I'm sure the stock discs will be fine.
Conclusion:
Overall, my theory was that the 4RS would be the perfect companion to the GT2. It was everything it wasn't: mid engine, naturally aspirated; PDK. In isolation from the GT2, it's pretty damn impressive. it was clearly tuned to be way more track biased but at the same time, when driven hard on mountain roads, it's just spectacular. It is not anywhere as easy to drive as the 991/992 cars and honestly, that's why I like it...more. I thought seriously about buying a 992 GT3 but it's just so goddamn big; the interior is just too much in the way of screens and tech. It's not the car for me. By contrast, I really feel the GT4/GT4RS is much more the spiritual successor to the ethos of the 997 GT cars than the 992 GT cars. The car rewards good/patient drivers. It asks that you manage the chassis and the grip. It doesn't suffer fools.
So all the above being said, if I had to pick just one, which would it be? Without a second of hesitation, the 997 GT2. This was further reinforced a couple of weeks ago when I had the pleasure of driving several flavors of 997 GT in short succession: 997.2 GT3 and 997 GT3 RS on track; 997.2 GT3 RS 4.1L on a long mountain drive. The experience just pushed to the forefront that 997 GT is peak 911 and will always be to me. The cars have the best looks, the best steering, the best engines of any 911 I've driven. The newer cars may be faster, but for me they have much less driver connectivity. While they deliver in spades on fast lap times, they lost some of their soul in doing so. When I was on track pushing the 997.2RS, not once did I want to go faster. I only wanted to master each and every corner entry and braking point. I wanted to refine MY driving. I did not want for ANYTHING from the car. It was doing it all and giving me tons of feedback at every moment. When I got back home from my week of 997 GT3 driving and got back in the GT2, it just made me smile. It was like coming home to the place I wanted to be. I love the damn car. Even crazy, A.D.D. me who usually cycles cars out after roughly 2 years, can't see letting go of this car unless I'm under duress (sorry Scott!). The GT2 is simply better at having a much wider range of usability. I can take it to the store for groceries; I can drive it on a 2 day road trip in relative comfort; I can blast down any road and have more power and grip than I could ever ask for. In that regard, it just does everything so well. Still. Bravo GT2!
TLDR; 997 GT2 > GT4 RS.
Some pics from the past couple of weeks:
GT4 RS at the bottom of Highway 33, near Lockwood Valley Rd. Highway 33 Hudson Ranch Road GT4 RS in the middle of nowhere off Hudson Ranch Rd.. Peak 911 day at The Ridge in Washington State. Red 997.2 GT3 (tracked), 997.2 GT3 RS (tracked), grey 997.2 GT3 (friend's car) white 997.1 GT3 (friend's car). A good time was had by all
Epic driving day with Spyder RS and 997 GT3 RS 4.1L. Later being top 3 of cars ever driven.
Thanks for another awesome write-up! I’d love to drive and experience all these GT cars myself but of course opportunities for this are quite rare. Reading driving impressions like yours is really the next best thing. And in a way reassuring to hear that conclusion. This does reconfirm my belief that a 997 GT3 is somewhere in my future but right now I can’t part with any of my other cars.
I did have a chance to drive a 997 GT3 on track a few years ago and it was EXACTLY how you are describing it. Incredible how you’re feeling just what each corner of the car is up to, how much grip it has, how much you are pushing it and very satisfying to get better at this.
And last but not least, you have some incredible roads at your doorstep there, enjoy!
Nice write up on the 4RS. I'd have to agree for the most part, which is ultimately why I ended up selling mine for the 997 GT2. I always said...gun to my head, I would keep my 7.2 3RS over the 4RS. I'll admit, I do miss the induction noise and character of the 4.0 in the 4RS...if only we could mix that into the package of a 997 GT
Chris - thanks for such a thorough write up. It seems yearly, I think about other options out there, for one reason or another. The “new factor” of a car with 0 miles is hard to pass up, but with allocations essentially impossible to get and knowing that I’d likely miss the manual driving experience, it’s hard to switch. Appreciate all of your insight. Continue to enjoy your rides. They’re great.
5/18/24 - Baby (Finally) Gets a New Pair of Shoes – 52,309
Over the past couple of months, the new girl (4RS) has been getting a lot of attention. Newness has it’s draw but that doesn’t mean the GT2 isn’t getting miles as well. Most weekends, I swap between cars and one gets a few errands; the other gets the long drives. Both are being driven regularly and I’d be lying if I said either car has a stronger pull when I grab for keys. Regular drives keeps them happy; keeps me happy.
A very good friend of mine had sourced what I think are the grail for wheels on any 997 WB car: BBS motorsports monoblocks. It took both the pull of mooty to get a set out of BBS and then a long wait for them to show up. When they were ready, my friend was out of the country so I took possession of them and stored them in my garage. I opened one of the boxes to peek in and see what they looked like. They were just stunning. When my friend told me he had a change of plans for their use (a 997RS 5 lug conversion) and that he no longer needed them, I thought long and hard about taking them off his hands. Thing is, I really love the stock black wheels that came on the car but they are one of the few parts of the car, I really wanted to restore. They look great at 10 feet but every time I detail the car, the sandblast and chips from 50k+ miles on the road has definitely taken it’s toll. Given their cost, I thought long and hard on the idea but ultimately passed.
On one of our calls, my friend brought up that we needed to figure out what to do with his wheels since I was moving soon. At that point, he made me the offer of a lifetime to take them off his hands. I jumped at it and just like that, they were mine. With all the things I had going on with our move, I sealed them up and just sent them to LA, figuring I’d mount them shortly after our move. Life stepped in, and most days I parked in the garage, I’d just stare longingly at them and tell myself “maybe next week”. After four months of the same refrain, I ordered a set of Cup2’s and a set of TPMS and decided to get the job done.
The logistics of getting a set of GT2 wheels and tires to the tire shop was no easy feat. The width of 325 tires is a challenge for all but the biggest SUV’s. But with a little bit of tetris-like skill, the set of wheels and tires fit inside my Macan and off I went. Once mounted, the wheels looked even better than I expected. I prepped the garage and started the swap. As a weight weenie in full force, I had to weigh both sets of wheels to see what if any difference there was between sets. The differences between sets: 6lbs front / 18lbs rear! 24lbs off the car, taking her down to a very svelte 3126 fully loaded. Not bad. And on they went.
Holy crap, I get why people love these so much. On the car, they really brought out it’s aggressive nature. I just wish I’d done the swap sooner. If I’m honest, I didn’t notice a huge difference in driving but that really wasn’t the goal. The goal was to just look great. Mission accomplished. Now the plan is to get the stock wheels fully restored. I expect that’s likely going to be a couple of months at least. That will give me time to decide which are the better pairing for the car.
@ChrisF Weight weenies rejoice! The BBS wheels are fantastic and a significant upgrade over the stock wheels. Kudos for taking time to weigh the before/after as I always like to do that as well.
Fairly off topic from the world of GT3/GT2 activities, but I have a set of custom forged Litespeed RS5RR wheels finished in Indigo Blue coming for my 2000 Porsche Boxster S. My weight weenie exploits go into overdrive with that car, but one day I will be buying a set of magnesium Litespeed wheels for my GT2 as well. As I'm not a huge fan of the stock GT2 wheels, my vote is absolutely for the BBS to stay on your car!
5/18/24 - Baby (Finally) Gets a New Pair of Shoes – 52,309
Over the past couple of months, the new girl (4RS) has been getting a lot of attention. Newness has it’s draw but that doesn’t mean the GT2 isn’t getting miles as well. Most weekends, I swap between cars and one gets a few errands; the other gets the long drives. Both are being driven regularly and I’d be lying if I said either car has a stronger pull when I grab for keys. Regular drives keeps them happy; keeps me happy.
A very good friend of mine had sourced what I think are the grail for wheels on any 997 WB car: BBS motorsports monoblocks. It took both the pull of mooty to get a set out of BBS and then a long wait for them to show up. When they were ready, my friend was out of the country so I took possession of them and stored them in my garage. I opened one of the boxes to peek in and see what they looked like. They were just stunning. When my friend told me he had a change of plans for their use (a 997RS 5 lug conversion) and that he no longer needed them, I thought long and hard about taking them off his hands. Thing is, I really love the stock black wheels that came on the car but they are one of the few parts of the car, I really wanted to restore. They look great at 10 feet but every time I detail the car, the sandblast and chips from 50k+ miles on the road has definitely taken it’s toll. Given their cost, I thought long and hard on the idea but ultimately passed.
On one of our calls, my friend brought up that we needed to figure out what to do with his wheels since I was moving soon. At that point, he made me the offer of a lifetime to take them off his hands. I jumped at it and just like that, they were mine. With all the things I had going on with our move, I sealed them up and just sent them to LA, figuring I’d mount them shortly after our move. Life stepped in, and most days I parked in the garage, I’d just stare longingly at them and tell myself “maybe next week”. After four months of the same refrain, I ordered a set of Cup2’s and a set of TPMS and decided to get the job done.
The logistics of getting a set of GT2 wheels and tires to the tire shop was no easy feat. The width of 325 tires is a challenge for all but the biggest SUV’s. But with a little bit of tetris-like skill, the set of wheels and tires fit inside my Macan and off I went. Once mounted, the wheels looked even better than I expected. I prepped the garage and started the swap. As a weight weenie in full force, I had to weigh both sets of wheels to see what if any difference there was between sets. The differences between sets: 6lbs front / 18lbs rear! 24lbs off the car, taking her down to a very svelte 3126 fully loaded. Not bad. And on they went.
Holy crap, I get why people love these so much. On the car, they really brought out it’s aggressive nature. I just wish I’d done the swap sooner. If I’m honest, I didn’t notice a huge difference in driving but that really wasn’t the goal. The goal was to just look great. Mission accomplished. Now the plan is to get the stock wheels fully restored. I expect that’s likely going to be a couple of months at least. That will give me time to decide which are the better pairing for the car.
Which do you like better?
Rear stock wheel weight
BBS Rear wheel weight
Before
After!
Best wheel on a 997! I prefer center caps. Either red BBS or OEM would look killer.
Best wheel on a 997! I prefer center caps. Either red BBS or OEM would look killer.
Set of silver caps with crest on their way to me. Had to test fit the stock black ones once the wheels were on to make sure they'd fit. Then i ordered.
02-12-2024, 12:57 PM
You have the ultimate 2-car solution.
