RAudi Driver

So I think I'm going to put both feet in and bid on a car.

Just looking at the site, I wonder why anyone would bid early. I see no upside to this other than pumping up the price and drawing attention. If it's a car that one would want to obtain, why give it more attention. Just an observation. All comments welcome so step up to the plate. Batter Up!

ScottArizona

Jumping right in early with a super robust bid (and bypassing all the dumb $911.00 type bids) could send a strong message to competition that could chill some bidding (maybe??) if others detect a “win at all costs approach” but other than that I don’t see a good reason.

8Lug

Most bidders on BaT are not real buyers. Some put in ridiculous bids just so they can feel like they are part of the action. Others put in bids well below market value just in case no buyers show up and they can steal the car at a ridiculous price. I don't think it really matters when the serious bids are placed. Most actual buyers have a number in mind that they are willing to spend. You will usually see them throw in some decent bids early, but then they save their final max bid for the very end.

balefire

Unlike eBay, late bid on BAT and carsandbids.com extend the auction.
So sniping is not advantageous

RAudi Driver

I realize that, Love that part about BAT. Just thinking as a bidder, what advantages could be had by bidding early instead of waiting till the action starts. Members answered the question well. Thanks.

I was going to bid on the White RS but with the BAT fee, it's now at the price the one I really want is at. I'm not into bidding just to up the price for the next person. Trying to see these prices realistic.


Edit: that last bid just wiped out everything in one fell swoop.

Ascend

Did someone from rennlist got it?

nathan1

Having been an auction buyer in various venues over the years I have developed my own bidding theory. I am sure that many others have their own. Here is my thought process:

If I see a car on BaT or another venue that I really want and its early in the auction, I will place a bid that is ~80-90% of what I think is the real value. So for example if a 2010 997.2 GT3 pops up with right miles, color, options and history then I would pop in with at least a $100k bid because we ALL know someone putting a bid in for 20, 30, 40 et al... is just a waste of time. An auction is efficient and ultimately will achieve a market correct price ~90+% of the time (there is always the random event either high or low). So what I do by setting at least a realistic number on the car is reduce the amount of dreamers and I tell anyone else interested, you need to be a player on this car. What you want to do is take out the dreamer early, lest he somehow become a player.

Why do I want to do this? Lets say the car sits on on BaT for some cute but ridiculous number like $9,972 all week. Some guy now spends his week daydreaming about it, mentally envisioning running it to redline and back, telling his wife how badly he wants it... Now out of the blue his wife says "Steve, I am TIRED of hearing about this damn Porsche fantasy, just buy the damn car.....". Bam, now a dreamer becomes a player. OR a dreamer gets swept up in the emotion, thinks it is still a "deal" and keeps bidding because bidding is a huge adrenaline rush, now this dreamer is driving up the price. I want to enter the final hour against only people that have cooly calculated a number and are disciplined.

Now if a car I want is already sitting at a close to market value early, I never bid until the final moments, no sense in causing more activity. More times than not I never bid as the car gets to somewhere beyond its value to me and I just move on to the next.

That's my rationale, could be total bunk but has served me well over the years both in live/in-person auctions and various online venues. To each their own.

noro78

I have no proof of this, just a gut feel, but in my opinion if you had a time machine and you could travel back in time and apply various bidding techniques you would come to a conclusion that it does not _ucking matter. Sure maybe there will be some silly .5% of difference in outcome but at the end people that are serious are the ones left standing at the end and only essentially 2 people at the very end decide the final price by its design. Same 2 people that would have been there no matter what happens in-between. The oh honey I am TIRED of hearing about this people do not pay top dollar especially for the type of car we are talking about. 12 year Toyota Corolla maybe.

So lay low till the end is what I do.. often even hours before the end the price rockets out of ones reach.. why would you subject to an emotional roller coaster days before thinking that you may have a chance when it reality it wasn't even close.

mdosu

I actually bought my GT3 on BaT. BaT's end time reset and non-incremental bid process changes the calculus for the better for serious buyers, and takes a lot of the ebay type frustrations out and removes the use of bots. Though the process all favors the sellers as the buyers tend to "over pay" in their auction design, it's at least fair to the bidders. I don't subscribe to most of the theories out there. The biggest variable IMO is auction end days/times. BaT assigns it themselves and as a bidder, you might luck out on a Saturday afternoon end time where there's less eyeballs. I also believe there will be irrational buyers, someone just have to have that particular one at that time.

My approach to BaT and all auctions is to approach it objectively and to track it up to the final 30 minutes of closing. I had a firm hard stop price in mind to take emotions out of it. 1 minute out from closing, I put in my best price for the moment. IIRC, I only made 1 bid, the final bid that closed the auction, and about $500 or so above my budget.

mdosu

man, that white RS was crazy action. Yesterday, I told my friend about the car, the odd spec on the car and that one might just end up at $150-ish with a weekend close. Boy was I wrong, at least 4 ppl willing to pay in the $160-$179 range, and 2 willing to fight it out at $180-$200, wow. Admittedly, I don't profess to be an expert on .1 RS pricing either.

Also note, most auctions on BaT for cars north of $60k value tend to all have reserves. So those early $997.01 type bids are all a moot point with the reserve. The in-person auction houses just cuts to the case and starts bidding at 80% of the market price. BaT, like ebay is incentivized to start low to get the conversation going to get the most eyeballs on it.

BartN (TX)

I follow BAT daily and always have a half dozen cars on the watch list. It's intoxicating. Some of the cars I watch because I very much may be serious about one in the future and I want to keep my finger on the pulse of the market. Not to mention the comment section can be very educational.

I have bid on a few cars with values that were 90% of what I expected market price to be. Basically looking for a reasonable 'deal' but never won any of those. I started late on the bidding in the 80% value range and inched up until they went over limit.

I did bid on and win an antique motorcycle which I held onto for a year and half until the nostalgia wore off and then resold it on BAT. They required my lower valued item to be 'no reserve'

RAudi Driver

If your'e paying bat to list it and they also get paid when it sells, why do they feel the need to tell you what you can and can't make on the item?

atlrvr

Opportunity cost for them, and reputational risk.

BartN (TX)

They put in a decent amount of effort into the listing and I'm sure that the $100 fee doesn't cover that effort. For lower valued items they want to make sure that they're gone at any price and they earn their % of the sale price to augment the upfront fee. I had no problem with it.

Funny thing is they're quite selective about the vehicles they list. I know of several people who wanted to list interesting well finished classics that they declined. In fact, they first declined my relisting until I reminded them that I'd bought it off of BAT and if it was good enough then why wasn't it good enough now. They changed their mind and listed it. I sold it for $1000 over what I paid so covered my fees, shipping and taxes. A very pleasant stole back to my youth.

Metaphysician

Another reason for bidding on the final day is that I see a lot of terrible sellers that can't get out of their own way. If they answer questions poorly (or if at all) or reveal additional details about the car that would impact the price, I'd want all the time possible to let that unfold. I'm sure you can retract a bid if something material is disclosed.