rbahr

I guess the 2 questions are:

• What do you want this car for - an 'investment' or to drive it hard - an investment - buy a Garage Queen and don't worry, to drive: get the motor (and tranny) checked out and if good beat the tar out of it!
• Is this a comfortable price point for you: If you are looking for a bargain, I would suggest resetting your sights perhaps for a different car, otherwise make a fair (to you) offer.

My personal opinion is that a properly rebuilt motor is a plus...

Ray - who has rebuilt his motor and tranny...

tjg81296

Ray,

this thread has led me exactly to what you’ve said. My intent is to drive the car and I agree, rebuilt can be a nice positive along with the welded/pinned lines. I’m not looking for a garage queen but I don’t have the experience to know the impact on value the rebuilt status has. I was looking for the valuable insight this forum provides to avoid making a potential uninformed poor decision. Considering most of these cars are $100k+ now I wasn’t sure the impact of a rebuild could have on the resale and I want the current owner to take the hit rather than myself. Thanks for your reply. Very helpful. I’m currently trying to figure the best option for a PPI on the car since I live in NYC and it’s a CA car (Murrieta). I made another post and learned some good info. People here are awesome. Thank you all. Much appreciated.

Tom Grady

rbahr

Hi Tom,

I am sure that folks can point to one or more reputable shops in that area. My PPI strategy for a geographically distant purchase it to be the person engaging with the shop, owning the report - which you may or may not want to disclose to the seller. In addition I have actually done a day trip to CA to check out a car I was interested in (I am an East Coast person like you).

Good luck

Ray

bweSteve

Hey Tom, ... just a thought here as I read your post. And this is just my way of thinking....

It "sounds" like you are thinking there is a possibility of re-selling the car within a year or 2 after purchasing,... in which case all of your concerns have merit. But my .02 will be that if you have never driven a 997 GT3 in your past,... then once you fall in love with this car, you will not want to sell it for many many years. ONCE that happens,... all bets are off, since the market adjustments up -or- down, will dictate more of your resale, verses whether the engine was rebuilt. Why? ... because you will have put TENS of THOUSANDS of miles on it. Which is a GOOD thing. Because then, you can justify the initial cost of the car, plus any depreciation that "may" have crept in due to market adjustments. BUT, if it just so happens that Porsche continues to increase price, and decrease driver involvement,... then there is a DAMN good chance that the car will appreciate. And then you can take a sigh of relief.

I say all that, because that is exactly what happened to me, since about 15 yrs ago with my 1991 964 Turbo. Bought it with the same thoughts as you. Couple years into ownership realized that it is a forever car, put tens of thousands of miles on it over 15 yrs,... and it still tripled in value. The problem then becomes,... you can only realize that increase in value, if you sell it. And if you love it, you won't. So the money spent many many years ago to purchase the car is a distant concern.
..... and yet the memories that you will create by owning the car will be priceless.

So buy the car that is absolutely the RIGHT SPEC for you. You will love yourself down the road for doing so.

Good luck.
=Steve

tjg81296

Steve,

I may very well keep the car. While the PDK is very fast, I have a hard time driving an automatic. I may be slow but I'm smiling

Thanks for your insight!

Tom

superfast02911

Not rebuild - replace. Catastrophic failure of the original engine.

pissedpuppy

totally agree - nice RS BTW

tpd83911

Tom - All great input above. I would put a lot of thought/faith/investigation into the shop that did the rebuild. Ideally, this was done somewhere that has a well-deserved and well-known reputation for rebuilding GT engines. If this is not the case then I personally would take a pass on that car. I have a 07 GT3 rebuilt to 3.8 specs that was done by Autometrics just outside Charleston, SC. 4 years flawless running. Rebuilds always raise questions for good reason. My car is long-term keeper but at resale would have very good documentation and known, reputable shop behind the build.
Tom

tjg81296

You guys are really awesome. Thanks for all your great input.

The plot thickens....

Any thoughts 2011 GT3 bone stock <20k miles (probably needs tires) original clutch, brakes vs this 2010 GT3, rebuilt, clutch replaced, needs tires, 3000 miles away will need to buy without seeing it?

The 2011 will cost about $10-$15k more but I debate the stock vs. rebuilt/pinned and welded values.

I will have a PPI done on whichever the decision is but I will also get to see the 2011 (may regardless) with my own eyes.

Thanks all for the guidance.

Tom

rbahr

Hi Tom,

You are starting to get into the Chocolate vs Vanilla debate :-)

It is hard for me to believe that one of these cars has gone 20k miles on 1 set of tires and brakes, but these are consumables and 9YO tires are complete junk anyway.

My preference is pinning vs welding. When I did mine, I pinned them, and I have a perfectly fine TiG welder. For me, there are more chances to get welding wrong than pin. The cost is vastly different, and I really don't think there is any advantage to welding.

In general:

Seeing is worth a lot
No story is worth a lot - IE replaced motor...

Question I would suggest asking yourself:

How important is the $10-$15k differential to you?
How do the option lists compare, color as well?
Do you get a warm fuzzy talking to one person over the other?
Is there a full complement of receipts?
It does sound like the rebuilt motor is a concern for you, how much so

Good luck

Ray

tjg81296

Hi Ray,

Not original tires just dated and due for replacement. Just pointing out both cars will need fresh rubber. The rebuilt engine actually isn’t as much an issue for me. My post was to make sure value wise it wasn’t a huge issue. I’m actually debating if the rebuilt is the better option since the same issue that caused that rebuild could come up on the 2011 with stock original power plant. The lines are done on the 2010/rebuilt. The 2011 will need that and my understanding that can be a $2-$3k endeavor. I do plan to track the car a few times a year. While $10-$15k is significant making the best purchase means more. Neither seller gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling since neither are true enthusiasts so it seems. Ones a dealer/flipper other appears to be somewhat a flipper as well. Would you know if an oil analysis can show signs of the camshaft failure issues that have happened with these engines? Would that be excessive for pre purchase to have one done? Really appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Tom

rbahr

WRT UOA: absolutely a good idea, and for the money you want to spend, it is NOT at all to much, just do it on your nickle. I use Blackstone Labs, there are probably others. These will tell you about any type of internal wear, leaking, etc.

For me, the seller is important, esp for something like this. I don't know if there is any time sensitivity here, but perhaps these are not the best choices for you. I have learned a few of these lessons the hard way (I hope)... https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...and-story.html and patience does have value...

Ray

Colorado964turbo

Work with Doug at Switchcars....

tjg81296

Man Ray, So sorry that went that way. Thanks for sharing. I'm doing my best to not make this a time sensitive venture. Much like yourself, my self inflicted pressure is high which hurts my own future. I'm hopeful, with the great help of RL, that I am asking the correct questions and getting valid answers to take the correct steps from each seller. Having been an aircraft mechanic and inspector turned computer guy I am fairly mechanically able but I have zero experience with Porsche and I know it. Do you know how much oil is required for the UOA? Any particulars you ask for when you request one from Blackstone? I attached the pricing here as well in case it rings a bell. Where are you located? I live in NYC.

Thanks Ray!
Tom

rbahr

The amount of oil is ~3-6 oz.

You are interested in coolant and metals - I would call Blackstone and ask what they think for your application.

I am in the Boston area.

FWIW: If you worked wrenched / inspected on airplanes you have the perfect temperament to work on these cars including motors and transmissions. I am an engineer who has been wrenching for longer than I want to admit, have a monkey (wrench) on my back when it comes to buying / owning tools. There is a lot of common sense involved, and with manuals and lots of attention to detail and some good tools, you can do most things...

If you search for my name under the 996 GT3 forum, I have written up rebuilding the motor, the transmission, and a lot of suspension stuff.

Good luck.

Ray