gt2-josh

I think the problem is your superlatives. Leaps and bounds and totally. I say they are different. To be more specific they are different at the limit. Maybe you and your friends are, to put it bluntly, slow. It's different whether your crew will acknowledge it or not. JBO

isv

I make no claims at being quick for sure but some of the people that I do know probably are if not the driving gods you know perhaps are still quick enough to know what they are talking about. Maybe not and everyone here is just slow I suppose.

And I did note in my first post, the cars are different but not in the way it has been portrayed (massively better, totally different car).

Mr. Adair

Your experience is enough! The 4.0 is a better car in MANY ways and I would trade my 3.8 in a heartbeat for the exclusivity of a 4.0 if I could afford it. I have not driven a 4.0 but If you believe the 4.0 supporters even the door pulls are faster in a 4.0! Hell, half the guys that kneel down to a 4.0 don't even have one! You own one, your opinion matters. The suspension has definitely been refined on the 4.0. I am sure the spring rates, helper springs, architecture, rose joints all make a difference. But it's pretty subjective right? Is it 10% 20% better? 100% better? I asked about the aero differences in the two cars last week and people that have have driven both said it was marginal at best and not noticeable in use by mere mortals. Yet, when you listen to AP describe the differences you swear you might as well throw the 3.8 in the trash. Perspective...

gt2-josh

It's near impossible to answer the percentage better question because I don't know if you can explore the car at the limits. I certainly can't. Maybe you can use lap data and try to account for the additional power and any tire changes. The aero differences between models are given to the media by Porsche so that's no secret. The good thing about the difference in the rear suspension of the 3.8 and 4.0 and any other 997 GT is that these cars are modular. I had the opportunity to buy a 4.0 and I passed. Huge mistake. However even if I bought one I wouldn't be able to tell you the difference based on my driving experience. I was however told by somebody that everyone here would agree knows his stuff. He said Porsche changed something on the 4.0 that made it handle properly at the limit. He also told me the specifics of the change but it's been nearly a decade and I can't remember what I ate for dinner last night. However the change exists and it's significant at the limit. The question that interests me is why Porsche only offered it to 4.0 RS owners when they could just as easily introduced it earlier. They new about it. However the good thing is these cars are modular. Tye probably has more RSR suspension parts on his street car than many dedicated rules no option modified Cup cars. JBO PS For the record I'm just a bench racer. By 2010 I had gotten tired of Porsche introducing a new must have model seemingly every few weeks so I skipped the GT2 RS and bought an F40 and I skipped the 4.0 and bought a CGT.

Mr. Adair

That's exactly right. This whole conversation evolves around the last 10% of performance of which I suspect about 90% of us can't extract. My biggest issue is a lack of cars to drive that have had various modifications. If I could drive Tye's car for 30 minutes or DSC equipped or a TTX equipped I can for sure tell you what I like. Just don't get the opportunity here in Mpls..

F1CrazyDriver

Lads,
Lets get back on topic. Last note on why not TTX and why i would like to keep my DSC.
I have had KW CS, amazing suspension on my prior car. I have driven a car w/ TTX Ohlins, amazing.

1) I don't want to manually adjust for every occasion on rebound/compression.
2) I want to keep OEM components.
3) DSC has endless capabilities w/ oem setup.
4) I want to push the boundaries w/ as much oem components as possible.
5) It's my car. I do as i like.

Lastly, yes, 3.8 RS = 4.0RS, can we please get back topic on this thread.

Mr. Adair

mooty

u got married?
i thought you were smarter than i.... well, ha

TTX is WAY better than DSC and also cost a lot more, $10k or so for a set.
it also take more effort to set up
do u want a hot temperamental mistress or just a wife (one that makes more than you do).
its not a joke, i have both (and i dont mean the shox). pick carefully


u smarter than i, F40 and CGT. i soudl hav done same.
i agree, is't not jsut parts same or not (too lazy to fix typo now.)
i have many race bikes (one you pedal). some are IDENTICAL, and i mean IDENTICAL but they dont ride the same. and you can ask may TdF pro's. they will tell u the same.
i digress. 3.8 and 4.0 have different parts and they do not drive the same, and you dont need to be at the limit.
how much is that diference worth, that's a personal question.
they indeed differ is a fact
i have had 12 997.2RS3.8 and 1 RS4.0
and close to 100k mile son 3.8 platform and 15000 miles on 4.0

gt2-josh

LoL!! I've always gotten along with Mooty because he says what he thinks regardless of the outcome and I've never known him to say anything that isn't dead true. The CGT and F40 at the same time was like having a wife that runs the house like it's a frat and I'm a first year and a mistress that needs to be fed like a slot machine. They cracked me. And yet I miss them. BTW I checked my near decade old Evo and the first thing Andreas P. says about the 4.0 is that it has a revised rear suspension. Ooh that wife thing still hurts

bmwtye

Has anyone explored whether the pasm control box in the 4.0 is different than the 3.8rs. Everyone is talking about different suspension components or rates, but what about the actual brains controlling all that. The magic could be in the programming of the oem box.

Yes I have a ton of Porsche motorsport suspension parts in my car. I also previously had jrz 2 ways which I ended up selling and temporarily put oem shocks/springs back in with the dsc box.

Tractive are going in next and from those I have talked to who have them should be the best you can do for a car that sees street and track time.

I know Adi is running Tractive and dsc and went 1:35 at Laguna and feels he can get to 1:34.

gt2-josh

Excellent point Tye! However I have no clue about the software. My comments are all hardware specific. All I ask is that you sell me anything you remove from your car. The stuff you remove is a huge upgrade to the stuff I run. Seriously sell me your stuff JBO PS I love Mooty's road bike example. Bikes and cars have always been my passion. Sadly I am slower on the bike than I am in the car. That being said his example is spot on.

stout

^ Yep.

Everyone wants 4.0 for the engine, I want it for the chassis tweaks. Not night and day, but they do make a difference in a critical area: Driver confidence. The 4.0 chassis achieves something that has nothing to do with percentages and on-paper performance: It is better sorted, more approachable, does a better job of keeping the tires in better contact, and provides crystal clear feedback to the driver. On smooth pavement, or with a full pro at the wheel, I am not sure how much the difference would be. But for this mere mortal, on real-world back roads, the 4.0 is in a different category of fun and pace—and not as a result of its engine. On the old loop, I had to stop not once, but twice, to let air out of the rear tires—a first for me away from the track. Yet I felt safer at that pace than I had in the 3.8 on the same road. 4.0 was also quite good in the rain once the tires were up to temp. Got into a 991.1S that day, and immediately wanted to be back in the RS 4.0. These are not quantifiables, but they make a difference. At least for me. I like the 997 RS 3.8. I lust after the 997 RS 4.0. One is in my top five modern Porsches, the other is not.

I suspect the 3.8 can be upgraded with 4.0 chassis parts and setup—and if I had a 3.8, I would get to work yesterday. Check the control box and drop link part numbers, and? As for aftermarket dampers...they're only as good as their setup, which all hinges on the who + their relevant experience. The good stuff doesn't come easy...talk about applied science + black magic. You can spend $$,$$$+ and still not beat the 4.0 setup.

F1CrazyDriver

FLT6SPD

So the take away from all this back and forth is the .2 3.8RS is not worthy of the RS designation and the .1 3.6RS badging should be immediately removed and sold?

What percentage of the 142 USA 4.0's are out there wringing them out? It sort of makes this discussion a moot point.

With that said I would gladly trade my 08RS, 11RS, and $100k for a 4.0, any takers?

Mr. Adair

Still want to know why nobody knows or can't tell us what the 4.0 suspension set up (parts/setup) is turn key. Meaning, after all these years why isn't this a regular upgrade via a parts supplier of some sort? Or even from Porsche?