.2 RS Suspension questions
#31
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How much of a difference is there from the Tractive RT to RTx? have to admit I've gotten used to seeing top level dampers with remote reservoirs so not seeing them on the RT dampers is a bit of a surprise.
#32
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Other reasons for remote canisters are in the past when the oils wasn't as good as they are today so having more oil capacity was always better. With better technology in oils today this is no longer always true. Fact: 997 GT3 Cup and 991 Cup factory race cars do not have remote canister shocks. Another factor is run time. The Cup cars were originally intended for sprint races with race length being about one hour. If a Cup car were to be converted to run endurance races longer than an hour then having the extra capacity of oil and a remote canister in a temperature cool location will makes the performance more stable throughout extended race time. Some Tractive damper sets are not really classified as RT or RTX, examples are Porsche 996 and Cup, the rear has to short enough to fit so a remote canister is naturally required and it is not an option(to which the RTX was meant be an offered option). Another reason for remote canisters is on a conventional all-mechanical monotube damper in order to have compression adjustment(hi-speed or low-speed) there needs to be a manifold to house the metering valve/dial, preferably the dial(s) are at an accessible location, so the manifold is conveniently located on the canister. For 2-way, 3-way, 4-way mechanical monotube dampers this is a requirement by design. Having electronically controlled damping changed the game on that.
To answer you original question, there's no appreciable difference in half hour track events between the RT and RTX unless there isn't an ideal damper length-to-stroke ratio like on the rear of 996 and Cup. Another example, Tractive dampers for the Dodge Viper ACR is right on boarderline of ideal ratio so the RTX version do work better for extreme track use. For those who want to buy the best to have the best then RTX it is.
Top level to us is more than what is visible externally. Top race teams look for internal operating clearances(piston-to-bore clearance) during operating conditions, low stiction, and near zero hysteresis. We spend a lot of time dyno'ing dampers before they go on any development car, we get very deep in it and we live and love it. Tractive dampers run very precise clearance after initial wear-in is 0.01mm and stays like this for over 10 million stroke cycles in a 400F degree cell, that was an OEM criteria. Tighter clearance extends service interval. Even down to the seals, not standard rubber seals, F1 low friction seals. All in the details of the internal. Once I asked them to make the external color brighter to make the damper look more appealing, they said NO!!! Their black coating is special and tested to high pressure salt water spray for 200 hours in a humidity test cell. I stopped asking after that. The coating is another OEM criteria we end users benefit from.
Last edited by Tom@TPC Racing; 01-12-2018 at 05:43 PM. Reason: cleaned up the grammar for better reading
#33
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Just spent an hour on YouTube perusing all things Tractive and DSC. Pretty compelling stuff. Didn't know they worked with Touratec. You can definitely see that they are a little low on marketing and high on engineering! I came away with a greater appreciation of the hardware quality. The last time I heard spool valves it was in regard to F1 tech. Good stuff, pretty sure nobody is doing things like this but them. Tom, you acquitted yourself pretty well on camera
.
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#34
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Tom-TPC, thanks for that very comprehensive reply. Good to know, definitely under consideration later in the year when I get round to fitting the various bits and bobs I have planned (still need to fit the side pipes I bought from you guys last year!
)
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#35
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To the OPs question on longevity of the dampers, we are a bunch from another thread on front axle lift, that discovered that a seal in the dampers leak hydraulic fluid into the lift system causing the lift of the axle not to work properly.
This happend on mine from aprox 16k miles. Having close to doubled that now, I do not feel any change in the dampers, but who know how that leak can show in other situations.
Quite a few has the fault (LIFT not showing, and car won't drop down by the button) that could be due the this, so with taking into account for evaluating the state of the suspension.
This happend on mine from aprox 16k miles. Having close to doubled that now, I do not feel any change in the dampers, but who know how that leak can show in other situations.
Quite a few has the fault (LIFT not showing, and car won't drop down by the button) that could be due the this, so with taking into account for evaluating the state of the suspension.
#36
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My pleasure to provide info. ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Whatcha wait'n for man!
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Whatcha wait'n for man!
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PCA National Instructor
TPC Racing stats:
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup Am Champion
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge GT4 Pro-Am Team Champion
2022 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup & 991 Cup Champion
2020 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2018 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2016 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2013 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2006 Rolex-24 @ Daytona GT Champion
2004 Grand-Am SGS Class Champion
PCA National Instructor
TPC Racing stats:
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup Am Champion
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge GT4 Pro-Am Team Champion
2022 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup & 991 Cup Champion
2020 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2018 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2016 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2013 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2006 Rolex-24 @ Daytona GT Champion
2004 Grand-Am SGS Class Champion
#37
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Just spent an hour on YouTube perusing all things Tractive and DSC. Pretty compelling stuff. Didn't know they worked with Touratec. You can definitely see that they are a little low on marketing and high on engineering! I came away with a greater appreciation of the hardware quality.
Yes, Tractive does a lot of on-road, off-road, and competition damper development for motorcycles. Being a motorcycle enthusiast, I LOVE that relevant tech crosses over to car dampers. That's where the special alloy 43mm inverted tube came from, MotoGP tech. Surpassing the factory Porsche 36mm standard for lateral flex resistance.
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43mm and 36mm inverted monotube
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Me: headshake.
I share this in a jokingly spirit of course.
Thank you. I am camera shy but once I begin blabbering about stuff that I am passionate about it just flows along.
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Last edited by Tom@TPC Racing; 01-12-2018 at 05:55 PM.
#38
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I have been eyeing the Tractive System for some time now. Over the holidays, my wife said that I can pursue the upgrade. I am very very excited to see what this system can do on the track! I read that most of these GT3 guys simply throw out the DSC and PASM dampers to use O r&t's, but in my opinion, Porsche engineered them for a reason. My car is shared on the track with my wife who is a B student. I feel like the Tractives can provide her with more neutral handling and more importantly, keep her SAFER than the stock PASM dampers. Anyone care to chime in on that?
#39
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I have been eyeing the Tractive System for some time now. Over the holidays, my wife said that I can pursue the upgrade. I am very very excited to see what this system can do on the track! I read that most of these GT3 guys simply throw out the DSC and PASM dampers to use O r&t's, but in my opinion, Porsche engineered them for a reason. My car is shared on the track with my wife who is a B student. I feel like the Tractives can provide her with more neutral handling and more importantly, keep her SAFER than the stock PASM dampers. Anyone care to chime in on that?
I have Intrax suspension fitted. It was on when I bought my gt3.
Not that bad but I never the opportunity to test a oem GT3 with PASM system to know how it works.
What is interesting for me is the "adaptative function". For a track, you can preset up your system because the curves are known, the surface is known. There is no surprise.
On roads as I have here, montain roads, it is all about surprise and changing.
I would be curious to see if Tractive Sytem would be able to adapt in each situation.
TRACTIVE/DSC would offer a satisfied or refound service.
We test it and if we are not that satisfied, we get all the stuff back.
#40
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Electronics do make cars faster and safer, from electronic fuel injection, to vario-cam, to ABS, to TPM, so why not the suspension.
To be completely honest, not that I haven't been, the dampers are not the only influence on vehicle balance on and safety. Balance and safety is a sum of the setup that even includes tires and differential locking and toe setting. Having a reactive damping system such as DSC/Tractive does make the car more stable during hard braking, eliminating most(if not all) of unwanted lateral movement that might worry a student driver, and some users have reported raised threshold for ABS and ICE by managing the weight transfer to occur more gentle to the load.
#41
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#42
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