AutobahnIstLieb

Sorry this is a bit of a rant, but there is a question in here as well.

I have a 2012 997.2 C4S 6-spd. I've owned the car for 18 months, having purchased it from a Porsche dealer with 4,000 miles on it "Porsche Approved." It is strictly a weekend car, no track days or autocross, with the occasional long road trip up the California coast.

I have been driving sticks for 33 years - as long as I have been driving. I learned on a 1966 Bronco with a clutch so stiff I literally had to stand up to engage. I've owned a dozen manuals since and have never in my life had to replace a clutch. I got 163,000 miles on the original clutch on my Nissan pickup, sold to a friend and he told me he got another 40K out of it before he finally had to replace it. I got 80,000 miles on my M3 - known as a clutch killer, before I sold it with the clutch feeling as strong as the day I bought it new.

So two weeks ago, I'm on Kanan heading for The Rock Store and I jam into 4th after exiting the tunnels and my heart sank and my face went white as I mashed the throttle and felt the engine spool up to 5,500 revs with no acceleration. I refused to believe it was the clutch slipping at only 16,000 miles so I pulled over and slowly began again.

Everything was just fine in 1st, friction point felt fine, clutch grabbed and my 3.8 flat 6 accelerated effortlessly through 7,000 revs as I put the left foot down to the floor and executed a shift so smooth, I'd defy anyone to tell me I'd just shifted. Same story up through third, now at about 70MPH, give it some gas, hit 5,500 rpm and like clockwork, it slips again.

Not good.

This being a Sunday, I nursed it home and immediately took it into my local Porsche dealer a few days later. The shop advised me the clutch was worn and needed replacement.

Now, I read the CPA warranty and it states clearly that the clutch is not covered:
Now, there is no way, NO WAY I burned up this clutch. There must be a defect.

• Strictly a weekend road car - no track days / autocross.
• I don't over-rev the engine.
• I don't lag the engine.
• I don't ride the clutch.
• I don't engine-brake.
• My shifts are so smooth and precise you don't even feel them.
• I rev match my downshifts, always.
• I don't idle in gear (bad for the throw-out bearing)
• All maintenance performed at Porsche dealers.
• I don't rest my hand on the gear lever (bad for the shifting fork).
• I don't rest my foot on the clutch pedal.
• I don't hold the friction point on hills.

So I am doing everything right. I know how to drive a stick, and now the dealer is telling me, of course, that they want $3,000 for a new clutch and they'll let me know about the flywheel. I'm guessing that's at least another grand.

Their only reply to me was "we believe you know how to drive a manual, but we don't know about the previous owner."

What??? So you sell me a car that is "certified" and I prove to you that there is no way in hell that I prematurely wore out the clutch and all you have to say is it's my bad luck because the person who owned it before me was some ***** who couldn't drive stick???

Ok, this is turning into a rant, sorry, but I am pissed off beyond words.

So there is a question here - can any of you think of anything else in the drivetrain that could cause this to happen? Could there be a linkage issue? Could the friction plate itself be defective? Perhaps a material issue?

I also have the clutch pedal squeak that some other 997 owners have reported. Could this potentially keep the clutch from fully disengaging?

I feel like I have to go to battle with PNA here, so I'm looking for anything that could explain how a skilled driver could fry a clutch after only 12,000 miles of driving. Certainly the previous owner could have abused the hell out of it on the track, but even if so, I can't believe Porsche would allow me to think it's normal to get 16,000 miles out of a clutch.

Thanks for any replies.

DC911S

The person that had it before you must have been bad at using the clutch and or it failed all on its own. Sounds like the pressure plate is bad. It's mechanical and things happen. Perhaps when they take it apart they can find the problem and give you a break on the repair costs. The warranty clearly states it's a wear item and you signed the papers.

AutobahnIstLieb

Wear item unless defective.

A properly-used clutch should last 80,000 - 100,000 miles with normal driving. Shave off 20% with "spirited driving" and with regular racing all bets are off. I'd expect I should get a minimum of 60,000 miles based on my driving style and experience.

user 72902

I'd say a flywheel from the dealer is at least another $3,000 if I remember what they quoted me.

AutobahnIstLieb

Well, that's just great.

wjk_glynn

ECS - https://www.ecstuning.com/Porsche-20...etrain/Clutch/

Clutch kits start at ~$750, flywheels start at ~$1K

Karl.

Mumbles

That's bad luck, nothing more , nothing less. Original owner probably rode the clutch, or dumping the clutch too often. Does past service show any clutch defects ?

Wear items are usually not covered, hoping the dealer that sold you the car will help you towards parts costs.

Good Luck !

mreloc

Good luck, but I wouldn't hold out much hope. I don't think CPO inspections include inspecting the clutch, only if it's operating as intended at the time they inspect it. If you feel confident the dealer is going to go to bat for you with PCNA- then go that route. Otherwise, I'd find a good indy and forego the dealer's premium hourly rate. What part of Cali?

DC911S

Go to Pelican parts and price it out. Pressure plate, friction plate, slave cylinder and maybe flywheel. Only way to see if it's defective is to take it apart.

Macster

Seen something similar once or twice.

In one case a guy bought a CPO Boxster and at some point drove the car to Lake Tahoe and back, putting oh maybe 300 miles on the car (and total about 3K since he bought the car). At some point on the drive back from Tahoe the brake wear warning light came on.

The owner complained and at first was told the usual. The dealer said essentially what the CPO process does is ensure the car is safe and any issues taken care of. In this case because the brake wear light wasn't on and a visual inspection didn't turn up any issues, nor a road test (like pulsing brakes) the brakes were left alone.

(As an aside, my 2003 Turbo as part of the CPO process received new tires all around. While the tires only had 10K miles on them they were 6+ years old and were replaced as part of the CPO process.)

Anyhow this guy complained louder and argued that the brakes had been very near being worn out when he bought the car and so close to being worn out should have been replaced. (Might mention here this is why even if the car is a CPO one must be very diligent about checking the car out. Had he noticed the (probably) big lip around the rotors he could have argued the rotors were very near worn out and probably gotten them replaced *before* he bought the car.)

Anyhow, while there is some possibility he well, he wore out the brakes in the 3K miles he had the car it is a bit far fetched and the dealer management relented and replaced the brakes at the dealer's expense.

One could argue your situation is similar.

That is pretty much in the case of your car if the clutch was not slipping and there were no other signs of any problems the clutch was not replaced.

There is no way short of removing the transmission to determine the clutch's wear. Someone very familiar with Porsche clutches -- which should include the tech checking out the car -- could maybe suspect the clutch was worn if the clutch pedal effort was high.

I can't speak to all dealerships but the ones I have dealt with most often I have been there when a tech was checking out a car and once in a while found a slipping clutch and of course was replaced as part of the CPO process. But the same dealer "missed" the brakes on the Boxster. (Same dealer but probably not the same tech.)

You can try to calmly argue no way should the clutch have gone out so soon. It was obviously on its last legs when you bought it.

Years ago when I had a new car (Tempo) the clutch started slipping at just 18K miles. This was in the early days before the Internet, back in the BBS days if you are old enough to remember, and the word I got from the various BBS's was this model/MY had a known weak clutch. I argued with the service manager and I he eventually agreed to cover half the cost of the clutch replacement cost. I considered this a win and accepted.

Driving the car the same way after the replacement clutch lasted another 60K+ miles and was still just fine when I traded the car in for a new Mustang.

My point is while you might like to get a brand new clutch/and if necessary a new flywheel getting just half the costs of this covered might be about as good as you can do.

Try for full goodwill but if it looks like you ain't going to get it be open to 50%.

Oh, I have to point out that with just 16K miles on the car the car is still a "new" car. And it is possible this early clutch failure is due in part or in whole to a defective clutch. (See my experience with my Tempo comments above.)

You might find a way to present this argument to the dealer and see how it goes.

C4inLA

I feel for you OP, see your not getting much sympathy ... Driving my 964 to beach and had a clacker sound going 30 mph and 29k miles on odometer... averaged 2k miles a year, so long out of warranty.. It's the DMF! Local Porsche dealer says, "It's mechanical and things happen" verbatum to DC911S ... I just had planetary carrier fail in my AWD, guess what PNA would say, "it's mechanical, stuff happens", zero empathy .... So, two engine out events, and car has 43k miles! I will not return to dealer for anything, ever ... PNA makes out big on warranty, because many not all try and preserve these cars by low miles per year and never use warranty Moral of my story, Buy it, drive it! 'til the wheels come off during warranty period... It still irritates me to have flywheel fail at 29k $@$&@ miles! Price we pay to drive what is 90% fine engineering ...

Cheers!

The Ox

I had a similar problem and feel your pain and disgust. 2009 S, bought it CPO with 23k miles, started slipping at 30k (about 10 months later), brought it to the dealer, $4,000 later I was out the door. Same response, must have been the previous owner. The last time I had replaced a clutch I was 17 (now 54) on my ' 81 VW Scirocco, that I beat mercilessly every time I drove it. I pressed the issue a little, and just paid and got on with it.

dasams

Lots of stories about CPO cars and what is or is not covered. I bought a three year old 2009 C2S with 5,000 miles on it. Drove it home and the next day the service light came on. Yes they CPO'ed the car but didn't change the oil or do the annual service. What a surprise

platinum997

Take it to and Indy to save some cost. Your not going to get anywhere with porsche.

Although you "sound" like a experienced clutch driver there are just way to many variables in 12,000 miles for them to cover.

I'm actually excited for the day my clutch goes to shi.t Gives you the opportunity to upgrade and add a light weight flywheel.

AutobahnIstLieb

Thanks I'll check it out.