Buying Advice: 997.1 C2S to E90 M3 (?)
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,190
Likes: 41
From: Bogota / Navarre Beach
I loved my E90M and thought it was a great daily driver. I actually liked the fact that it was pretty benign until you got over 4K RPMs. It made it very easy to drive 'normally' and in slick conditions. Once you got on it, the wail of that V8 at redline was inspiring.
That said, I would probably +1 to take a look at a used S7. Likely more space than the M3 and just as fun. Had the S7 existed when I got my M3, there's a chance I would have gone with the Audi.
That said, I would probably +1 to take a look at a used S7. Likely more space than the M3 and just as fun. Had the S7 existed when I got my M3, there's a chance I would have gone with the Audi.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 28
Likes: 8
These are all great points. The thread has transitioned to a key question, 'what's a fun four door car for around $40-50K and could be taken to the track every other month'? There are some really good ideas here that I'll do more research on:
- f80 m3 (saw the competition package today, looks very solid)
- 340i m
- maybe something audi s (S3, S4, S6; wish we had RSs)
- M5/S7 seem a bit too big for me...
- merc is interesting but will need to see live
Any other ideas?
- f80 m3 (saw the competition package today, looks very solid)
- 340i m
- maybe something audi s (S3, S4, S6; wish we had RSs)
- M5/S7 seem a bit too big for me...
- merc is interesting but will need to see live
Any other ideas?
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 84
Likes: 1
From: Africa
My Brother has had is 08 M3 for a few years now, he has maintained it as per BMW spec at the dealership and just as it hit 80 000km (we where out on a breakfast run at the time) the engind ran bearings. he had to ship a new engine innfrom germany ( to south Africa) not cheap and a serious PITA. I would stay FAR away from these second hand BMW engines
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 155
From: Orange County
I went from an E46 M3 and was thinking of the E9X M3 until I drove my buddies. It felt a little faster than the E46 (which it is) but the weight actually made it feel less special and negated the great V8. Hoped in a 911 and the search totally changed from BMW M3/4/M2 to 911. Never looked back sense. I had my M3 for a few months overlap with my 997 and I would hop in it and it felt very very ordinary (it wasn't a track monster, but was slightly lowered and had Koni Yellows and CSL alignment). I know it isn't an "ordinary" car, but compared to the 911, it is no contest.
The mention of the 340 above being "faster" than a 9977 C2S. I am assuming that it is maybe "quicker" at some acceleration testing (not to be too much of a magazine racer but the 997 C2s times range from 3.9-4.4, the 340i range from 4.4 to 4.9). Add to the fact that this is only talking about acceleration and not handling and brakes and frankly I'd love to take on that one
Frankly, I'd never own a non-M BMW, the M is barely "special" enough, just barely.
The mention of the 340 above being "faster" than a 9977 C2S. I am assuming that it is maybe "quicker" at some acceleration testing (not to be too much of a magazine racer but the 997 C2s times range from 3.9-4.4, the 340i range from 4.4 to 4.9). Add to the fact that this is only talking about acceleration and not handling and brakes and frankly I'd love to take on that one
Frankly, I'd never own a non-M BMW, the M is barely "special" enough, just barely.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 832
Likes: 183
From: Long Beach, CA
I'd be tempted to grab a 335d! It would of course be no-where near the M3 on the track (I've seen them on track however....), but as a daily, the diesel engine is a rocket and is quicker in the real world than the M3. 425lbs of torque almost off idle!
If you do go for the M3, scour the BMW forums for the gotchas, and I'd go for the latest model year you can afford. They do sound quite epic with an exhaust!
If you do go for the M3, scour the BMW forums for the gotchas, and I'd go for the latest model year you can afford. They do sound quite epic with an exhaust!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 10
From: Silicon Valley
I cannot recommend a 335D, I got rid of mine last year. They have well documented carbon build up issues.
To the OP- if you go with a BMW or Merc recognize that you will see ALL of the value come out of the car. These makes have no resale value at all past 5 years, and all of them eventually become $5000 cars. That does not happen with 911s. I am local to you- look at old porsche pricjng vs. the other makes on craigslist- buying these other brands is like throwing out the money that you pay for them.
I tracked an M3 for years BTW, they are not ready for the track at all in stock form. The brakes overheat and boil the fluid, the suspension is not adjustable and is way loose, and they have no downforce at all for our local tracks like Laguna, THill or Sears. I wouldn't even try to track a BMW on stock brakes at Laguna given all the downhill braking there.
If you have the parking, I would get a used CPO X5 and then get a cheaper track car like a Cayman S or an early 997. Or just keep yours and buy a daily driver.
To the OP- if you go with a BMW or Merc recognize that you will see ALL of the value come out of the car. These makes have no resale value at all past 5 years, and all of them eventually become $5000 cars. That does not happen with 911s. I am local to you- look at old porsche pricjng vs. the other makes on craigslist- buying these other brands is like throwing out the money that you pay for them.
I tracked an M3 for years BTW, they are not ready for the track at all in stock form. The brakes overheat and boil the fluid, the suspension is not adjustable and is way loose, and they have no downforce at all for our local tracks like Laguna, THill or Sears. I wouldn't even try to track a BMW on stock brakes at Laguna given all the downhill braking there.
If you have the parking, I would get a used CPO X5 and then get a cheaper track car like a Cayman S or an early 997. Or just keep yours and buy a daily driver.
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Joined: Apr 2016
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Likes: 17
Completely different cars of course, but you can't go wrong. The M3 is a much more practical car, I had an E 92 and could fit two bicycles in the trunk, wheels and bags in the backseat for two people, plenty of room in that car. I had a 991 and ended up selling it, too much money for a car that we didn't drive. Pretty much every place I go either includes skiing or cycling, and I need the versatility. At least on a daily driver
The E 90 ZCP is very sporty, engine is responsive at higher rpm's, doesn't feel too heavy, and it's wicked fun at speed on the highway's The E 90 ZCP is very sporty, engine is responsive at higher rpm's, doesn't feel too heavy, and it's wicked fun at speed on the highway. At the track you may notice more of a difference, as a daily though they are both super fun, just different flavors.
The E 90 ZCP is very sporty, engine is responsive at higher rpm's, doesn't feel too heavy, and it's wicked fun at speed on the highway's The E 90 ZCP is very sporty, engine is responsive at higher rpm's, doesn't feel too heavy, and it's wicked fun at speed on the highway. At the track you may notice more of a difference, as a daily though they are both super fun, just different flavors.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,129
Likes: 911
From: Destin, Nashville, In a 458 Challenge
I cannot recommend a 335D, I got rid of mine last year. They have well documented carbon build up issues.
To the OP- if you go with a BMW or Merc recognize that you will see ALL of the value come out of the car. These makes have no resale value at all past 5 years, and all of them eventually become $5000 cars. That does not happen with 911s. I am local to you- look at old porsche pricjng vs. the other makes on craigslist- buying these other brands is like throwing out the money that you pay for them.
I tracked an M3 for years BTW, they are not ready for the track at all in stock form. The brakes overheat and boil the fluid, the suspension is not adjustable and is way loose, and they have no downforce at all for our local tracks like Laguna, THill or Sears. I wouldn't even try to track a BMW on stock brakes at Laguna given all the downhill braking there.
If you have the parking, I would get a used CPO X5 and then get a cheaper track car like a Cayman S or an early 997. Or just keep yours and buy a daily driver.
To the OP- if you go with a BMW or Merc recognize that you will see ALL of the value come out of the car. These makes have no resale value at all past 5 years, and all of them eventually become $5000 cars. That does not happen with 911s. I am local to you- look at old porsche pricjng vs. the other makes on craigslist- buying these other brands is like throwing out the money that you pay for them.
I tracked an M3 for years BTW, they are not ready for the track at all in stock form. The brakes overheat and boil the fluid, the suspension is not adjustable and is way loose, and they have no downforce at all for our local tracks like Laguna, THill or Sears. I wouldn't even try to track a BMW on stock brakes at Laguna given all the downhill braking there.
If you have the parking, I would get a used CPO X5 and then get a cheaper track car like a Cayman S or an early 997. Or just keep yours and buy a daily driver.
I am a Porsche guy through and through and used a litany of 911 turbos all purchased new as daily drivers from 89/90 through 2015. I stepped way outside the box between March 2015 and December 2016 as to my daily driver and then did the unthinkable in December of 2016 - picked up my first BMW, a '17 F80 M3 with Competition Package. I still have a '15 GT3 and a CPO '12 997.2tt cab that I also purchased in December for top down, summer fun. Gotta say, the F80 ZCP puts the same size grin on my face as does the 997.2tt and it does so with a roomier back seat than my Wife's Macan S.
I used to see a lot of M3s back in my instructing days at hilly technical tracks and they seemed to handle the tracks just fine and generally handled the tracks the same or better than the NA non-GT 911s out there. I always took my cup cars or carbon fiber shelled, lexan windowed, full cage Elise with passenger seat out for instructing weekends and never once used my daily driver turbos on a track which in my opinion were too heavy to have real fun . . .