What do I need to change to get -3 degrees camber in the front on a 997S 2005? I will put on Bilstein b16 coilovers if that helps?

I am now looking on changing to Gt3 lower controlarms but don't know if that's all I need to change?

thank you!

 

Upper strut camber plates help but will likely come up short with a stock 997 C2S suspension. It pulls the top of the wheel inwards to increase negative camber. The camber plates give you about -1 degree or so more than stock, depending upon which brand of camber plates you buy. Stock 997S suspension gets to about -1.1 or so max alignment depending upon how lowered you are. So total best case with camber plates alone is in the neighborhood of -2.0 to -2.5 degrees max.

GT3 style split lower control arms will definitely get you there. You add shims to push the bottom of the wheel outwards adding negative camber. But to get to -3.0 degrees you will need a lot of shims, north of 15mm or so. Not sure if it pushes the limits of it's design intent though.

So do what GT3's do - both. And the camber plates up top for some negative camber, and shims down below for the rest. Plus you will get a monoball on the top of the strut built into the camber plate - much better than the rubber bushing on the 997S stock suspension.

You can use 996 or 997 GT3 LCA's but pay attention to the thickness of the LCA puck. A 997S has a thicker hydraulic bushing and the matching thrust control arm. You can use 996 GT3 LCA's but need the matching thinner 996 GT3 thrust control arms. Or keep your 997 thrust control arms and use thick metal washers as spacers to fill the gap.

I have a 2006 C2S with Bilstein, OEM 997 GT3 top camber plates, OEM 996 LCA's and the matching 996 GT3 thrust control arms. I went with 996 only because I needed the refresh the thrust control arms while I was in there could source the 996 setup cheaper. It was all about saving some money for the same handling performance.

 

Ok thank you very much.
So if i put these on (link at the bottom) it will get me a long way if I understand you right? Maybe I can start with -2 or -2,5 and i will manage with just the Controlarms?
http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/92...ont_right.html

 

Yes, those are the GT3 LCA's. Here's another site showing how they are two pieces with shims to adjust the length: http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...kit-detail.htm



Again be sure the version you buy are from a 997 GT3 so you can reuse your thrust control arms. If you get a 996 GT3 version LCA's then you need these too: http://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Inf...341-043-06-M80



You also need an assortment of shims upwards of 15mm total per corner, and a pair of litronic bracket shims (F&R left side) for the headlight leveling system too. Something like this: http://www.rennline.com/GT3-Lower-Co...oductinfo/S19/ and these litronic brackets (one front axle set, one rear axle set)http://www.rennline.com/GT3-Lower-Co...tinfo/S22/2037 and this:





I highly recommend you look at camber plates while you are doing the Bilstein install. The extra labor to install them at the same time is minimal. But if you need them later you will pay almost the same labor as the original install.

Rennline: http://www.rennline.com/Sealed-Front...oductinfo/S21/

Tarret (careful here, only high camber mode works on a 997 which is what you want): http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...lta-detail.htm

Porsche OEM 997 GT3's look like this (997.343.011.94):


There are a lot of other pieces to consider while doing this. I highly suggest picking a vendor like TPC Racing, Rennline, Tarett Engineering, or one of the board sponsors here to help you put the package together. But you can source all the parts yourself if you know how to navigate Porsche's PET diagrams. And consider TRW branded parts instead of Porsche branded ones to save money.

Good luck!

 

Thank you so much for Everything!

Seams like at this Point i will start with the camber plates and track the car like that in the beginning of next year. To get the LCAs i need to put out about 1200 dollars as it seams and I will get some negative camber with the plates so i guess thats a good start.

I have just got a time to change to the tarett Deep sump with baffels. Need to do some mods to get the car track redy for next year (alredy have 40cm of snow in Sweden so the season has ended here =).

Seams like you know alot about this car and the mods thats good to make for the track so do you mid if I ask some more questions? =).
I alredy got the Cup2 tires, will change to B16 damptronic (got them in the garage ready to put on) and have a Techequipment rollcage. Will also change to a tarett 0,5 Deep sump with baffels and now the chamber plates.
Is there anything els you recommend med changing to get a fun trackcar for next year?

The mods i do this year is not to replace a GT3 car but more to get something in the middele of a S and a GT3 and a car that tracks well. In some future when the bank account looks differens i guess that a GT3 will be the next step.

 

Now THIS is the kind of useful information I count on this forum to provide. Just so happens I've been pondering the same issue. Thanks John997 and Semicycler for the Q(s) & A(s). (I realize my post adds nothing....just wanted to express appreciation.)

 

You may want to look into replacing the other suspension parts that contain rubber busihings. RSS and others offer these, but I'm talking about toe steer kit, rear camber locks, rear dog-bones, etc. I have a complete RSS suspension including these items plus: LCAs, adjustable sway bars with drop links, with Bilstein B16 Damptronics, Tarett Monoball Top Mounts, and the TPC Dynamic Suspension Control and it's primarily a street car, but with that setup, still rides very well and corners like you wouldn't believe. The TPC module lets you configure the softness / firmness of the suspension based on g-forces and has 2 different modes so even with all these non-rubber components, the car still rides well.

 

If you are a novice at the track then cup2 tires are overkill. If you stick with MPSS or PS2's then your front camber only needs to be about -1.5 to -1.8 or so. Camber plates alone is enough. Research GT3 alignment specs, shoot for this. But go on the low end of the rear toe spec to save tire life and the high end of the front camber spec to get the car neutral, or even higher to about -1.8. Front to rear camber should be no more than 1 deg different otherwise handling is affected too much (keep the rear around -1.5 or so).

I'd do this for tracking:
1. DSC control box to replace the OEM PASM control box. It turns your S flavor car into an active suspension, tightening up just the right corner when needed. Honestly I'd do this first above everything else including Bilsteins.

2. Engine mounts - semi-solid, solids have too much NVH. Rennline, RSS, Function First, there are others too all great stuff.

3. Fresh brake fluid and oil change. Some do them before and after a track event. I top the oil off before and flush after, and always flush brakes after. I only flush the brakes before if it's been a few months since my last visit.

4. Aggressive street alignment - get as much front negative camber as you can with the stock suspension, should be about -1.1 degrees or so.

5. Dedicated track brake pads - Pagid are popular, so are PFC's. Plenty of threads here on the topic. They squeal when cold though so not great for the street. But when warmed up they are awesome at the track.

At this point on street tires you have an awesome setup. Get some seat time in, then when ready go deeper down the slope:

5. Coilovers like Bilstein damptronics along with GT3 style camber plates for the monoball and more negative camber. Pick a drop in the 0.5" to 1" range keeping the front to rear rake proper. GT3 drop specs are a good place to start. Be sure to get the car corner balanced during the alignment too the help with handling. Or do lowering springs instead but you lose the ability to tune the drop and corner balance. But the price is significantly cheaper.

6. Track alignment - see above, use GT3 specs as a starting point.

7. Sway bars, and if you are lowered then drop links to go along with them. Look for used GT3 ones or new H&R to save money. But there are others out there that are awesome as well. The drop links are only needed for moderate to severely lowered cars. They will remove the swaybar preload when the car is lowered.

8. 3rd radiator if your oil temps are too high

Beyond this it gets expensive (lol, it's expensive already but you get the point).
9. GT3 split style LCA's for even more negative camber, needed for track tires.
10. Track tires with matching light weight wheels as a second set. 18" wheels are popular because they are light and the rubber is cheaper than 19" flavors. Using a second set lets you swap in track brake pads and tires before your events, then back to street brake pads and tires afterwards.
11. Another track alignment for the track tires. Front camber at -2.5 to -3.0 or so, rear about -2.0 to -2.5. You will probably want to tune this to your tastes at this point.
12. Deeper oil sump. Some do this sooner. I believe your engine is fine until you put track tires on. The the g-forces are a bigger deal so the extra oil near the pickup helps prevent starvation.
13. Start replacing rubber bushings with solid monoballs - dogbones, LCA puck, inner LCA bushing, transmisison mounts. But say goodbye to driving on the street except for the smoothest of roads. US city driving will be a nightmare.
15. Track seats, roll bar, harness,
16. Larger brakes - turbo or GT3 6-pot calipers, 350mm rotors, two-piece are better and lighter
17. Drop weight - remove AC, radio, etc.

There's plenty of other things that are fun too on the sound side and power side. Just understand the power gains are minimal, maybe 50HP best case - gundo exhaust for sound, 200 cell high flow cats for power, headers, larger GT3 throttle body and IPD plenum on the intake, a tune, Numeric shifter and cables, etc. These are not needed for the track but are on my list anyways.

It's an expensive and slippery slope. Understand before you start what your end game is for the car (track conversion? back to stock for resale? drive it until it dies?). Then start modding.

 

Thanks semicycler. Really useful post.

 

Thanks Semicycler!
I have been driving on the track for some time and the PS2 tires just dont cut it. They get to warm and the car dosent have the grip that i want. Have also been taking track instructions, both porsche drivng school and private. I just cant go any faster in the car that I have =(.

So this is why I am making some modifications on the car for next year. The tires was all worn down so got me a set of CUP2 now and need the deep sump to go with them. I know alot of people get the oil/air motorsport devider (dont know the real name in English) for Cayman car. Is that something thats needed for a 997 S car?

Track brake pads and new brake fluid is Always fresch so have that coverd. And also the motoroil.
The disc cracks and need chaning like 1-3 times a summer but they are alot cheeper then geting some aftermarket ones and they do work really good i think.

I have been looking on the third radior and maybe puting a GT3 grill in the front spoiler for the air outlet. I will also get the GT3 brake ducts to channel air for the brakes.

The GT2 anti-rollbar is someting that is interesting for me aswell since it will get the car more balanced and not as much understeer.

And as written above the B16, roll Cage, 6-point harness and Sabelt GT-140 chairs to go with it.

I really like the Pictures Petza914 posted above but i think thats a bit extreme for me.
I will make the modifications to my car, drive it for 1-2 years to get a better and faster driver and then put in the money for a GT3.

Thank you everyone for the answers. This is exactly what I was looking for and to get me the information i needed to go forward with my car for the next summer!

 

I think the brake ducts are a good call, along with two piece brake discs/rotors. I have them on my other car, and the heat management is far better.