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I love cream, I have a white .2 c4s with black leather. I would have picked cream in a heartbeat but you never see them with black leather that was my only gripe with it.
interesting just met someone with a white .2 c4s targa at the grocery store parking lot this morning. He parked next to me and was like, “I’ve never seen a cream one in person” he also said had he known about the color when he brought the car new in 2009 he would have picked it over his carrara white. He bought his car off the lot and didn’t research what factory colors were available to order that year. Definitely feel I made the right choice in getting this special color 😊
Been a while since anyone updated this thread so here’s my new to me Cream White 09 C2. It’s PDK with black interior and sports chrono. I’m the second owner. It has low miles, 34k, and meticulously maintained; feels and drives super tight. I’ve done a few subtle mods shortly after taking possession of it. Eibach springs and 10/15 wheel spacers for that lovely stance, colored crest wheel caps, and clear side markers. The car came with the Zunsport grill covers. I’m getting a hundo hack done soon just to give it sportier exhaust note. I feel the black interior gives it a sportier look, versus some of the brown or tan interior options which feel more luxurious. I’d love to come across an affordable set of sport classic wheels as I think those match up very nicely to the retro vibes of the cream white. So far, I’m loving and enjoying my little creamsicle
Beauty. Congrats. Tough to find a white one with black interior so nice find. Seems like most of them have sand beige or brown interior.
As for your planned exhaust mod, the Gundo hack is a good start but I think most here will agree that you have to address the center muffler too on a .2 car to get the growl I guess is what you're looking for. You'll get some improvement with the hack alone but that center muffler is very restrictive (and heavy). There are a number of bypass systems for less than $1,000 to replace the center muffler. Makes a world of difference and makes what you spend on the hack worthwhile. Unless you like it semi quiet. If you do then maybe the hack alone will do it for you. Ditching the center muffler in favor of any of the bypass pipes doesn't make the car obnoxiously loud. Just makes it sound like a 911 should sound imo.
Beauty. Congrats. Tough to find a white one with black interior so nice find. Seems like most of them have sand beige or brown interior.
As for your planned exhaust mod, the Gundo hack is a good start but I think most here will agree that you have to address the center muffler too on a .2 car to get the growl I guess is what you're looking for. You'll get some improvement with the hack alone but that center muffler is very restrictive (and heavy). There are a number of bypass systems for less than $1,000 to replace the center muffler. Makes a world of difference and makes what you spend on the hack worthwhile. Unless you like it semi quiet. If you do then maybe the hack alone will do it for you. Ditching the center muffler in favor of any of the bypass pipes doesn't make the car obnoxiously loud. Just makes it sound like a 911 should sound imo.
thanks Sandwedge. I was about to pull the trigger on a sharkwerks center delete, but went down the rabbit hole of the potential for idle vibration that can happen with PDK cars with the center deletes. I know the possibility is low for getting the idle vibration, but opted to start with just the Gundo hack and then upgrade to a center delete if I feel it still needs more bark. There’s also the question of doing the cross pipes like sharkwerks or billy boat or the x-type style like fab speed or soul. I’m kinda leaning more into the x-type for a higher pitch tone, but have yet to hear them in person for make that final judgement.
thanks Sandwedge. I was about to pull the trigger on a sharkwerks center delete, but went down the rabbit hole of the potential for idle vibration that can happen with PDK cars with the center deletes. I know the possibility is low for getting the idle vibration, but opted to start with just the Gundo hack and then upgrade to a center delete if I feel it still needs more bark. There’s also the question of doing the cross pipes like sharkwerks or billy boat or the x-type style like fab speed or soul. I’m kinda leaning more into the x-type for a higher pitch tone, but have yet to hear them in person for make that final judgement.
What a beautiful car you have!
I think your studied approach to addressing your exhaust system is a good idea. Sandwedge's point about addressing the rear center muffler is 100% spot on.
For my 2009 C2S, the first approach was to address the side mufflers (Fisters). They were a significant improvement (to my ears) over stock. However, the sound was still very subdued for me (I was not looking for loud - just more exhaust sound presence, and a better tone.) The second approach was to replace the stock rear center muffler with a Sharkwerks cross over unit. With that change, there was a very significant improvement in both the volume of sound, and also the tone. To your point, I did notice an increase in vibration felt through the seat of my pants when the car was at idle (my car is a PDK car). Was it a problem? No, not in my opinion. The vibration to me was in keeping with the nature / character of the 997 - in other words, a more connected and visceral experience. (Which is the reason I chose a 997 in the first place over a 991.)
In your comment, you mention the desire to achieve a "higher pitch tone..." In my opinion, if you're actually after a change to a higher pitch, none of the exhaust options I've noted will do that. What you will get however is a change in volume of sound. Much better sound at idle. Dramatically improved sound as you get into the upper RPM range of the car - which is where the 911 flat six sings.
Ultimately I changed out the Fister side mufflers, replacing them with Tubi's. They produced a more open tone throughout the total RPM range. To me, a smoother more European sound (my description anyway.) Tubi's are incredible (and about 1/2 the weight of the stock side mufflers.) But they are not inexpensive.
Beauty. Congrats. Tough to find a white one with black interior so nice find. Seems like most of them have sand beige or brown interior.
As for your planned exhaust mod, the Gundo hack is a good start but I think most here will agree that you have to address the center muffler too on a .2 car to get the growl I guess is what you're looking for. You'll get some improvement with the hack alone but that center muffler is very restrictive (and heavy). There are a number of bypass systems for less than $1,000 to replace the center muffler. Makes a world of difference and makes what you spend on the hack worthwhile. Unless you like it semi quiet. If you do then maybe the hack alone will do it for you. Ditching the center muffler in favor of any of the bypass pipes doesn't make the car obnoxiously loud. Just makes it sound like a 911 should sound imo.
I think your studied approach to addressing your exhaust system is a good idea. Sandwedge's point about addressing the rear center muffler is 100% spot on.
For my 2009 C2S, the first approach was to address the side mufflers (Fisters). They were a significant improvement (to my ears) over stock. However, the sound was still very subdued for me (I was not looking for loud - just more exhaust sound presence, and a better tone.) The second approach was to replace the stock rear center muffler with a Sharkwerks cross over unit. With that change, there was a very significant improvement in both the volume of sound, and also the tone. To your point, I did notice an increase in vibration felt through the seat of my pants when the car was at idle (my car is a PDK car). Was it a problem? No, not in my opinion. The vibration to me was in keeping with the nature / character of the 997 - in other words, a more connected and visceral experience. (Which is the reason I chose a 997 in the first place over a 991.)
In your comment, you mention the desire to achieve a "higher pitch tone..." In my opinion, if you're actually after a change to a higher pitch, none of the exhaust options I've noted will do that. What you will get however is a change in volume of sound. Much better sound at idle. Dramatically improved sound as you get into the upper RPM range of the car - which is where the 911 flat six sings.
Ultimately I changed out the Fister side mufflers, replacing them with Tubi's. They produced a more open tone throughout the total RPM range. To me, a smoother more European sound (my description anyway.) Tubi's are incredible (and about 1/2 the weight of the stock side mufflers.) But they are not inexpensive.
Good luck with your project.
thanks Ironman for your insight. In your experience, did the vibration at idle extend to your steering wheel and mirrors as well? I’ve read some posts where some mention the vibration is felt through the seat and can be seen on the passenger seat back while others mention it shakes the whole car to the point they had to remove the pipes and place the original center muffler back in place. Still others mention zero vibration or change from original, so I guess it affects every car differently. I guess the upside is that these pipes seem to easily trade hands in the secondary market so I can always revert back if I don’t like the “side effects”
thanks Ironman for your insight. In your experience, did the vibration at idle extend to your steering wheel and mirrors as well? I’ve read some posts where some mention the vibration is felt through the seat and can be seen on the passenger seat back while others mention it shakes the whole car to the point they had to remove the pipes and place the original center muffler back in place. Still others mention zero vibration or change from original, so I guess it affects every car differently. I guess the upside is that these pipes seem to easily trade hands in the secondary market so I can always revert back if I don’t like the “side effects”
Everman31, the vibration that I've experienced is not acute to the point where it shakes the steering wheel, mirrors, or passenger seat back. I only feel it through the driver's seat of the car - and that only occurs at idle with the PDK in gear.
Prior to ordering the Sharkwerks unit (purchased new, directly from Sharkwerks - plus, by the way, if you mention you're a Rennlist forum member, you'll get a discount...) I spoke with Dan Kennedy, manager with Sharkwerks and posed the question to him about the vibration issue. He conveyed that some of the early manufactured units were of a design that resulted in more of the vibration issue. They altered the design because of that so that units produced and sold from that point would not have the issue (or the issue to that extent.) That may help explain why there is the inconsistency of feedback regarding people's experience with them.
I would suggest that if you do decide to purchase one, it may be advantageous to purchase a new one. (The Rennlist member discount that I received was $100 off...)
Been a while since anyone updated this thread so here’s my new to me Cream White 09 C2. It’s PDK with black interior and sports chrono. I’m the second owner. It has low miles, 34k, and meticulously maintained; feels and drives super tight. I’ve done a few subtle mods shortly after taking possession of it. Eibach springs and 10/15 wheel spacers for that lovely stance, colored crest wheel caps, and clear side markers. The car came with the Zunsport grill covers. I’m getting a hundo hack done soon just to give it sportier exhaust note. I feel the black interior gives it a sportier look, versus some of the brown or tan interior options which feel more luxurious. I’d love to come across an affordable set of sport classic wheels as I think those match up very nicely to the retro vibes of the cream white. So far, I’m loving and enjoying my little creamsicle
I may have a set of those, I'm not sure of the exact name. I'd let em go....there an option wheel that come off my 7.2 C2S, there not silver though, I had them powercoated a charcoal, didn't come out as hoped (there's a little purple in then IMO.
Lemme know if you want to see em....
Easiest way is to go on my IG @mikearmienti and May of 2020 there's a pic. I have a hard time loading pics on this site from my MacBook for whatever reason....
I may have a set of those, I'm not sure of the exact name. I'd let em go....there an option wheel that come off my 7.2 C2S, there not silver though, I had them powercoated a charcoal, didn't come out as hoped (there's a little purple in then IMO.
Lemme know if you want to see em....
Easiest way is to go on my IG @mikearmienti and May of 2020 there's a pic. I have a hard time loading pics on this site from my MacBook for whatever reason....
Hi Mike. The wheels I’m referring to are the ones that came on the 911 Sport Classic which was sold in Europe. They are a retro Fuchs style, not sure if they are actually manufactured by Otto Fuchs though. as far as I know they only came in black centers. They are pretty hard to come by and are quite pricey. There’s some knock off styles that came out over the years, but the authentic ones are the ones to have. See pics below:
thanks Sandwedge. I was about to pull the trigger on a sharkwerks center delete, but went down the rabbit hole of the potential for idle vibration that can happen with PDK cars with the center deletes. I know the possibility is low for getting the idle vibration, but opted to start with just the Gundo hack and then upgrade to a center delete if I feel it still needs more bark. There’s also the question of doing the cross pipes like sharkwerks or billy boat or the x-type style like fab speed or soul. I’m kinda leaning more into the x-type for a higher pitch tone, but have yet to hear them in person for make that final judgement.
I've heard of the vibration issue but there's not a lot of postings about it so I guess it's not a common problem. I'm on my second 997.2 now, both with center deletes. First one (-09 C4S) with a full Tubi system which includes side mufflers and bypass pipes and the second one my current GTS with PSE and Sharkwerks. No vibration issues on either one. But as Ironman88 points out with his conversation with the Sharkwerks manager it may depend on the year of production of their product. Sounds like they did some tweaking with the later systems which may have solved the problem. At least with that particular bypass brand.
That said, I'm not completely convinced that's all there is to it. I say that since my GTS had an early version of the Sharkwerks pipes when I bought it and still no problems. Got the latest version about a year and a half ago after being rear ended and couldn't tell any difference. Maybe it has something to do with modifying or replacing the side mufflers and then combining them with any of the center muffler delete options. Perhaps some of these pairings will work in harmony with each other while others won't, causing the vibration in some cases. Just speculating here of course but there has to be a reason why some have the vibration issue while most don't.
Originally Posted by Ironman88
In your comment, you mention the desire to achieve a "higher pitch tone..." In my opinion, if you're actually after a change to a higher pitch, none of the exhaust options I've noted will do that. What you will get however is a change in volume of sound. Much better sound at idle. Dramatically improved sound as you get into the upper RPM range of the car - which is where the 911 flat six sings.
Ultimately I changed out the Fister side mufflers, replacing them with Tubi's. They produced a more open tone throughout the total RPM range. To me, a smoother more European sound (my description anyway.) Tubi's are incredible (and about 1/2 the weight of the stock side mufflers.) But they are not inexpensive.
Good luck with your project.
Couldn't agree more. The most common exhaust mods won't produce a "higher pitch tone". Can't say I've heard all of them but I've heard quiet a few and the one and only I've heard so far producing a higher pitch tone is the Tubi. The "Euro sound" as it's been called. Had the Tubi side mufflers on my -06 C4S and the full Tubi system on the -09 C4S which includes bypass pipes for the center muffler delete. To my ears the full system for the .2 cars definitely had that higher pitch tone. More so than just the side cans on the -06 which still sounded amazing.
Hi Mike. The wheels I’m referring to are the ones that came on the 911 Sport Classic which was sold in Europe. They are a retro Fuchs style, not sure if they are actually manufactured by Otto Fuchs though. as far as I know they only came in black centers. They are pretty hard to come by and are quite pricey. There’s some knock off styles that came out over the years, but the authentic ones are the ones to have. See pics below:
Thats the look I was/did go after. Absolutely my favorite 997 NB. Bought my fake Fuchs from a place in LA (out of business), now there is a place in Washington state where I get the replacements. Hartmann Wheels iirc
But the real Fuchs are the way to go, $6500 last check.
Last edited by mikes70; 11-27-2021 at 10:21 PM.
Reason: added content
11-25-2021, 06:13 PM
