jntn2002

I wish my 1st post after joining in 2004 (yes 2004 been lurking a long time) was going to be more positive but here it goes:

I finally purchased my 1st Porsche a CPO 997.2 Carrera 4, with 49k miles on it from an out of state dealer and no, I did not get a PPI. My delivery was scheduled for a Monday and I anxiously planned my day around the possible delivery date. Surprisingly, I get this phone call on the Saturday before from the transport guy saying that he will be arriving in the evening, "Do you have time to pick up the car?" "Hell yeah!"

I get a call a few hours later that the transport driver has arrived at the location near my house that can accommodate a semi. My wife and I quickly drive down to the shopping center to pick up the car.

As you can imagine, I am ecstatic that my Porsche has finally arrived. The transport driver takes the car off the truck and I examine the car carefully with the transport driver pointing out various imperfections but not out of line for a car with 49k miles. I complete the paperwork and finally hop in. I take the key in my right hand and I'm about to start the car, duh!, remembering that the ignition is on the left. I look around to make sure no Rennlisters see me do that.

I press the clutch in, hmm, kinda heavy, but I dismiss it thinking that I'm in a freaking PORSCHE and it is supposed to be heavy. I start her up and the glorious sound of the flat 6 fills the cabin. I think, "I don't need the sports exhaust.....yet.." I carefully pull away, I'm thinking "Hmm the clutch engages, high, well every car is somewhat different in engagement point, I'm in my own 911 oh YEAH!!"

Fast forward 700 miles about a month a later I bring the car into my local Porsche dealer for State inspection, and for them to check the clutch because in addition to the heavy feel and high engagement there is a slight "judder" when creeping. Lo and behold the dealer tells me I need a new clutch for $4k. I contact my selling dealer and naturally they state that the car was totally fine because the service manager, pre owned manager, mechanic drove it and the car displayed no issues what so ever. He also suggested that the dealer that my car was at was trying to make extra money.

Excerpt from the email sent to me by the sales manager:

"As the car was delivered to you in early July and over 500 miles have been driven since, we cannot guarantee the current condition of the vehicle or the conditions which how it was driven since you've taken delivery."

Since I have taken delivery of the car, I have driven it only on suburban roads and highways, taking wonderful early Sunday morning drives around my area. I have picked up and dropped off my children from summer camp and various activities, marveling at the versatility of the 911. As far as experience in driving a manual transmission, I have owned manual transmission cars since 1993 starting with a Honda Prelude, E30, E36 BMW M3, Audi S4, Subaru WRX,WRX STi, Lotus Elise, BMW M5, BMW M Coupe, Miata, CTS-V, VW GTI, BMW 135i, BMW M Roadster. I have never needed to replace the clutch in any of these vehicles.

I understand that the clutch is not a covered component in the CPO warranty as I have been told repeatedly. But assuming that the clutch was fine when it was inspected 700 miles ago, there must be some sort of component failure that would cause premature wear, which would be covered. If that is not the case, then "111 point inspection" is flawed or just a hollow promise.

And yes, I think that after 49k miles the clutch on a AWD vehicle has a strong possibility of replacement due to wear and tear. That's why I paid a premium for a CPO assuming that the "111 point" inspection would uncover that and that it would be taken care of.

Needless to say, I'm extremely unhappy with the vaunted CPO 111 point inspection and all the marketing BS that allows them to charge a premium on the car.

You would think after so many cars I would be smarter and get a PPI and not trust the dealer, but I was seduced by the beautiful lines and the awesome driving experience of a 911.

So what can I do now? Well, I contacted the selling dealer, PCNA, and well, this forum post. We'll see what happens. Hopefully this will be resolved to my satisfaction.

Get a PPI from a trusted source and go and drive the car personally, and yup, caveat emptor even if its Porsche Certified Pre-Owned.

austx911S

Ouch! That really sucks. Like you, I would not expect to need a PPI for a CPO coming from a Porsche dealer. I would *think* that PCNA would have something to say about that and back you up. Good luck.

Ben Z

First, that's a gorgeous car, and hope this issue doesn't sully your enjoyment of it too badly.

I bought mine with just over 20K on it, and the clutch was heavier than I thought it should be, but it engaged at the right point and didn't slip or shudder. However I decided when CPO ran out I would get the LN IMS retrofit, and at that time the clutch was found to be well past half gone, so I had that done since it was only the cost of the parts. I have driven sticks all my life and never had to replace a clutch even with triple digits on the odo. Apparently the former owner was rough on it. Also apparently the non-S versions do not have self-adjusting clutches like the S versions do, so as it wears the pedal effort increases.

I'm admittedly an old fart, but this business of buying cars sight-unseen is foreign to me. For what these babies cost I would spend the money on a plane ticket and a couple nights at Motel-6 if I was seriously considering purchasing. There are a lot of things I could tell in-person with a test-drive. If it checked out, then I would go ahead and spend the money on a PPI to hopefully uncover things a test-drive wouldn't reveal.

Good luck getting this resolved. I have found Porsche NA (and MB NA and BMW NA) rather uncooperative, but YMMV. And if you do end up footing the bill for a new clutch, find yourself a good indie. $4K sounds pretty high for a clutch job, unless it's a lot more on a 4 than a 2.

cool flash

Clutch is somewhere between 1500 to 1800.

Regards,

CF

rickdogg82

No guarantee that a third party PPI would have uncovered the clutch issue.

rbennett

I bought a 2010 C2 PDK 68k mi with a 2 yr CPO on it.
I did not have a PPI performed figuring Porsche will deal with any major issues.

I did go look and drive the car plus do my own surface inspection looking under side for wet parts and stuff.

mcfisticuffs

I feel your pain. My old 996 was purchased with 70k miles on it, and it needed a clutch (threw in the IMS and RMS) after 3,000 miles of ownership. I wasn't pleased, but at least the clutch is good now.

Own Goal

You need to post the name and address of the dealer on here many times. This site is one of the major Porsche enthuast sites. Bad word gets around. With a CPO you should not need a PPI. Personally, I would take it to my local independent that I am very happy with to have the work done. While it is torn down, take pictures. Post them up in your thread. A lot of very experienced Porsche people with national reputations will say what kind of wear that looks like. Sounds like no way in so few miles this could have happened I'm guessing.
In retrospect, should have taken to a local dealer that Monday and used your CPO with about no miles.
FWIW my last P car was an 06 Cayman S 6 speed bought at 28k miles. Used as DD for a couple of years and sold at 58k miles. Clutch was good when I got it and just as good when I sold it. To say, the dealer did you a dirty sounds like.

Blu311

A couple of things on the clutch... I just sold a 997.2 with 69k miles and on the original clutch, I thought the clutch behaved fine. When I took it for a PPI when I was selling it, the owner of the indy shop said he felt a slight clutch chatter upon taking off. I asked if he thought the clutch was going out because I didn't want to sell a car with a dying clutch (once again it felt fine to me). He said that if the driver knows how to drive a clutch one could probably get 20k more miles out of it, but also that it could go soon with abuse. So is your clutch in that type of situation? Also, even if you didn't damage it at all, you really have no way of proving that to the dealer, stinks... hopefully you can work something out.

Next, the two indy shops I checked with in my area were $1500-$1900 for a new clutch installed. So hopefully if you need a new clutch, its closer to $2k instead of $4k.

jntn2002

Thanks for the support everyone, much appreciated.

wc11

Even if you have all the previous service invoices as I did, there's no way to tell how the previous owner or any dealer or car jockey for that matter, drove the car.

At least in my case, the 1st year I had an AC compressor and front left rad fan go so that was covered under the CPO.

Unfortunately, unlike the brakes, a simple visual inspections cannot be done and I can't see any dealer of any auto brand dropping the transmission to inspect the clutch.

Hope it all works out for you.

tomc_mets

Exactly what OG said. Name the dealer! Do it here and on every social media outlet you can access...T

JuanK20

Beautiful car. Congrats. Sorry about the clutch. That $4k quote is ridiculous. Go somewhere else.

LexVan

I'm just super impressed that you remembered your screen name and password after 12 years to make your first post. Get the clutch fixed and enjoy the new car. This should just be part of the budgeting process of buying a used car, and vetting it out to make it perfect for you.

Inspect and drive your purchases in person. If you can't, don't buy, or at the very least, ask for a Rennfax.

jdgamble

I feel your pain. I just purchased a CPO vehicle that is not current on routine maintenance, despite the checklist item that verifies maintenance performed. I called Porsche customer service, and after several emails back and forth with them and the dealer, the dealer is paying for much of the maintenance (plugs, etc). They are not doing everything I want done, but they are sending me a check for about 60% of work.

Is PCNA in contact with the dealer? I would keep bugging them. Like multiple emails/day.

Good luck with everythig.