Shifting nirvana finally acheived
09-13-2016, 04:41 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
I did the PTX about 4 months ago and it helped the shifting into first, but it did not solve the problem.
Yesterday I installed the Numeric shifter and cables along with FF orange trans mounts. The shifting is very "gatey" which I like, the shifting into any gear is now flawless (given the 30 miles driven) and the positive mechanical feel is great.
There is an increase in NVH which is most noticeable around 2k rpm when coasting and a very slight one at 3k/ constant speed. I'm hoping once the FF seats for a bit those will diminish.
The other "new" noises are pleasant, that is, engine sound, slight gear whine, etc. It will be fun at the track.
Yesterday I installed the Numeric shifter and cables along with FF orange trans mounts. The shifting is very "gatey" which I like, the shifting into any gear is now flawless (given the 30 miles driven) and the positive mechanical feel is great.
There is an increase in NVH which is most noticeable around 2k rpm when coasting and a very slight one at 3k/ constant speed. I'm hoping once the FF seats for a bit those will diminish.
The other "new" noises are pleasant, that is, engine sound, slight gear whine, etc. It will be fun at the track.
09-13-2016, 11:57 PM
#19
Track Day
Those are the solid mounts. Unless it's a track-only car, you probably want the semisolid mounts:
http://www.rennline.com/Tunable-Semi...oductinfo/M18/
The yellow refers to the inserts. There are 3 colors of inserts based on how firm they are.
http://www.rennline.com/Tunable-Semi...oductinfo/M18/
The yellow refers to the inserts. There are 3 colors of inserts based on how firm they are.
09-14-2016, 08:28 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
So, the street yellow mount is stiffer than OEM engine mount, BUT it doesn't produce the same amount of vibration or noise as a basic solid mount, right?
Last edited by alexb76; 09-14-2016 at 08:43 PM.
09-14-2016, 11:13 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Those are the solid mounts. Unless it's a track-only car, you probably want the semisolid mounts:
http://www.rennline.com/Tunable-Semi...oductinfo/M18/
The yellow refers to the inserts. There are 3 colors of inserts based on how firm they are.
http://www.rennline.com/Tunable-Semi...oductinfo/M18/
The yellow refers to the inserts. There are 3 colors of inserts based on how firm they are.
09-15-2016, 12:36 AM
#22
Track Day
Semisolid mounts are stiffer and more durable than OEM but don't have nearly the NVH of solid mounts. Most semisolid mounts on the market have a 75A durometer rating for the hardness of the urethane bushings. The Rennline mounts are pretty popular because you can swap out the bushings for stiffer settings, but it seems like most people just go with the softest (yellow, 75A) inserts anyway.
Thanks to Rennlist, I know waaaaaaay too much about engine mounts...
12-13-2016, 03:27 PM
#23
Track Day
I've had the exact same issue in my 2009 C4S since I bought it in the spring. Notchiness in 1st & 2nd, and an occasional unwillingness to go into those gears (usually at the worst possible time). It sounds like you've made all of the mods I've either done or am considering. I hope I can achieve the same results.
I'm trying to do 1 mod at a time so I can see the difference that each one makes, going from least to most expensive.
1) Mobilube PTX: Did absolutely nothing. A lot of guys get great results, but no dice here.
2) Function First trans mount inserts (yellow, sport): Didn't do anything for the notchiness, but made the shifts feel a bit more solid. I'm very happy with the overall results (better handling & acceleration), but the shifting isn't there yet. I can see why you wouldn't notice a difference if you did the Numeric first. It probably already feels much more solid than stock.
3) Semisolid engine mounts: Next on my list. Haven't decided on a brand or hardness yet, but your post has me leaning strongly toward the Rennline yellows. Would love to get the results you did.
4) Numeric shifter: Doesn't really matter what the engine mounts do. I'll probably do this one anyway to improve the shifter feel. From this and other threads, it doesn't sound like this would fix the notchiness, but I really want the rifle bolt action in my shifter.
5) Replace synchros: I hope it doesn't come to this, but I'm afraid some worn synchros may be contributing to the problem. I've only got 49K miles, but who knows what the previous owner did. I'll be extremely happy if I can stop at #3 and just do #4 because I want to.
I'm trying to do 1 mod at a time so I can see the difference that each one makes, going from least to most expensive.
1) Mobilube PTX: Did absolutely nothing. A lot of guys get great results, but no dice here.
2) Function First trans mount inserts (yellow, sport): Didn't do anything for the notchiness, but made the shifts feel a bit more solid. I'm very happy with the overall results (better handling & acceleration), but the shifting isn't there yet. I can see why you wouldn't notice a difference if you did the Numeric first. It probably already feels much more solid than stock.
3) Semisolid engine mounts: Next on my list. Haven't decided on a brand or hardness yet, but your post has me leaning strongly toward the Rennline yellows. Would love to get the results you did.
4) Numeric shifter: Doesn't really matter what the engine mounts do. I'll probably do this one anyway to improve the shifter feel. From this and other threads, it doesn't sound like this would fix the notchiness, but I really want the rifle bolt action in my shifter.
5) Replace synchros: I hope it doesn't come to this, but I'm afraid some worn synchros may be contributing to the problem. I've only got 49K miles, but who knows what the previous owner did. I'll be extremely happy if I can stop at #3 and just do #4 because I want to.
Recently, the notchiness going into 2nd seemed to be getting a lot worse, almost more of a crunchiness like the clutch wasn't all the way in. So, I suspect there may be a more serious issue with the synchros or something. That being said, the RSS mounts definitely improved things. The downshift from 3 to 2 is now perfect. There's only a slight notchiness going from 1 to 2, and some slight difficulty getting into 1st at times (from out of gear at a stop).
So, to recap the progress so far in terms of improvements in shifting, PTX and transmission mount inserts did nothing. RSS semisolid engine mounts definitely helped, but there's still room for improvement. The Numeric shifter will be next, and I'll probably do the Numeric cables separately so I can see what the difference is with the shifter alone vs shifter + cables.
In the meantime, I'm trying to adjust my own shifting to be more deliberate, as others have described in various threads here. A couple of times, I have slowed down my shifting to make 2 distinct steps, and it went from 1 to 2 so smoothly that I let out a "Woohooo!" That has been the exception rather than the rule, though. Driver error/bad technique seems to be less of an issue than just a ****ty transmission. My whole body tenses up every time I shift from 1 to 2 because I'm anticipating the struggle. I'm still waiting for the Nirvana of being able to slam it into gear at will.
12-13-2016, 05:05 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
I did the PTX transmission oil change and the Numeric short shifter on my 997.2 in one shot. I did not do the transmission mounts. Shifting is great now - short, quick, and precise. The tech who did the install test drove the car right after Numeric install and after the PTX oil change. He said there was not much difference between the stock transmission oil and when he put in the new PTX transmission oil.
The only problem I think I have is not pushing my foot all the way down on the clutch before going into 1st gear (N to 1st gear). I would be at a complete stop (light or sign) and the car doesn't let me go into gear (no grinding or anything like that), so I would have to go back to neutral, release clutch, make sure to push clutch all the way down, and put shifter into 1st gear. My daily is manual transmission as well and has a clutch that is a lot more forgiving, so I think I just have to be more mindful in the 911.
**update - not pushing clutch all the way down wasn't the problem. I encountered not being able to go into first gear from a full stop, with the clutch completely pressed in. I really don't know what causes this problem.
The only problem I think I have is not pushing my foot all the way down on the clutch before going into 1st gear (N to 1st gear). I would be at a complete stop (light or sign) and the car doesn't let me go into gear (no grinding or anything like that), so I would have to go back to neutral, release clutch, make sure to push clutch all the way down, and put shifter into 1st gear. My daily is manual transmission as well and has a clutch that is a lot more forgiving, so I think I just have to be more mindful in the 911.
**update - not pushing clutch all the way down wasn't the problem. I encountered not being able to go into first gear from a full stop, with the clutch completely pressed in. I really don't know what causes this problem.
Last edited by GT2RSobsessed; 12-19-2016 at 01:51 PM.
01-08-2017, 12:18 PM
#25
So, are there any updates on people's quest for better shifting? So far I'm eyeing the Numeric shifter and cables (seems to be a deal on the combo now). Since I have a Kwiklift, I'm hoping the cable install is pretty easy to DIY. I reeallly don't want to add too much NVH, and people talk about added NVH with the Numeric cables (which i don't understand- I suppose shifting itself might sound a bit more direct, but once the shift is done how could NVH be a factor??)
Also eyeing the Rennline engine mounts with yellow inserts. They're pretty
and seem to be adding some improvement.
Also eyeing the Rennline engine mounts with yellow inserts. They're pretty
and seem to be adding some improvement.
Last edited by mreloc; 01-08-2017 at 12:54 PM.
01-08-2017, 02:21 PM
#26
Advanced
Happens in most 997's; exacerbated by cold weather, and freaks me out when I can't engage 1st in a rolling stop sign!
These things have helped over time:
1. Double-clutching from neutral or second into first
2. Clutch-in, shift half way to second, then into first
These things have helped over time:
1. Double-clutching from neutral or second into first
2. Clutch-in, shift half way to second, then into first
I did the PTX transmission oil change and the Numeric short shifter on my 997.2 in one shot. I did not do the transmission mounts. Shifting is great now - short, quick, and precise. The tech who did the install test drove the car right after Numeric install and after the PTX oil change. He said there was not much difference between the stock transmission oil and when he put in the new PTX transmission oil.
The only problem I think I have is not pushing my foot all the way down on the clutch before going into 1st gear (N to 1st gear). I would be at a complete stop (light or sign) and the car doesn't let me go into gear (no grinding or anything like that), so I would have to go back to neutral, release clutch, make sure to push clutch all the way down, and put shifter into 1st gear. My daily is manual transmission as well and has a clutch that is a lot more forgiving, so I think I just have to be more mindful in the 911.
**update - not pushing clutch all the way down wasn't the problem. I encountered not being able to go into first gear from a full stop, with the clutch completely pressed in. I really don't know what causes this problem.
The only problem I think I have is not pushing my foot all the way down on the clutch before going into 1st gear (N to 1st gear). I would be at a complete stop (light or sign) and the car doesn't let me go into gear (no grinding or anything like that), so I would have to go back to neutral, release clutch, make sure to push clutch all the way down, and put shifter into 1st gear. My daily is manual transmission as well and has a clutch that is a lot more forgiving, so I think I just have to be more mindful in the 911.
**update - not pushing clutch all the way down wasn't the problem. I encountered not being able to go into first gear from a full stop, with the clutch completely pressed in. I really don't know what causes this problem.
01-08-2017, 02:31 PM
#27
If installed properly the Numeric cables shouldn't add any NVH. Key is to cut off and reuse the fluted rubber shrouds from the original cables and add rubber grommets to the gearbox end links before terminating both ends. Numeric cables are twice the stiffness so they are consequently thrust against the tunnel with much more force once installed. Without dampening precautions I could see how they might introduce more NVH. Great upgrade in shift performance if done correctly.
So, are there any updates on people's quest for better shifting? So far I'm eyeing the Numeric shifter and cables (seems to be a deal on the combo now). Since I have a Kwiklift, I'm hoping the cable install is pretty easy to DIY. I reeallly don't want to add too much NVH, and people talk about added NVH with the Numeric cables (which i don't understand- I suppose shifting itself might sound a bit more direct, but once the shift is done how could NVH be a factor??)
Also eyeing the Rennline engine mounts with yellow inserts. They're pretty and seem to be adding some improvement.
Also eyeing the Rennline engine mounts with yellow inserts. They're pretty
and seem to be adding some improvement.
01-08-2017, 06:44 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
I'm really enjoying the Numeric Shifter and cables. The cables do add some NVH but nowhere near the NVH added by the FF trans inserts.
I did the PTX and replaced my motor mounts as well (stock).
The rifle bolt action shifting is flawless...if you let the Shifter make the 2-3, 4-5 guide you really can't miss a shift...on the way down the force against the stops (5-4, 3-2) feel so natural as well. The best upgrade I've made by far.
I did the PTX and replaced my motor mounts as well (stock).
The rifle bolt action shifting is flawless...if you let the Shifter make the 2-3, 4-5 guide you really can't miss a shift...on the way down the force against the stops (5-4, 3-2) feel so natural as well. The best upgrade I've made by far.
01-08-2017, 07:33 PM
#30
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have noticed that it does take a lot longer for the shifting to smooth out now that winter is here, if you can consider what we have in CA winter
. So transmission temperature is a big factor here. I did not change cables. Would be interested in hearing from those that have what specific changes you notice after cable change was done.