View Poll Results: Poll: Have you had bore scoring on your 997.1 or 997.2 engine?
Yes, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
138
14.38%
Yes, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
17
1.77%
No, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
515
53.65%
No, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
290
30.21%
Voters: 960. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Scored cylinder failure for your 997, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1 or 997.2)
02-14-2018, 02:48 AM
#136
That’s a good suggestion. I had the pan off during a recent oil change but was not thinking about the bores at that time. It was the first time the pan was off I believe and it was free of any particles. I will give it a go at the next oil change and also send a sample to Blackstone as Charles N. suggests. Meanwhile, like always, I’ll just keep aware of the car. I would like to meet up with your Marin group sometime, does this forum have a way you can privately send your email?
02-16-2018, 04:48 PM
#137
Advanced
That’s a good suggestion. I had the pan off during a recent oil change but was not thinking about the bores at that time. It was the first time the pan was off I believe and it was free of any particles. I will give it a go at the next oil change and also send a sample to Blackstone as Charles N. suggests. Meanwhile, like always, I’ll just keep aware of the car. I would like to meet up with your Marin group sometime, does this forum have a way you can privately send your email?
If I were in your shoes, I highly recommend a boroscoping by a trusted indy for added peace of mind, sometimes different equipment will defintively distinguish between polish lines and real scores.
If, and my fingers are crossed for you, that it’s 100% clean and non-problematic, consider immediately replacing the water pump (pre-emptively), changing it out to a low-temp thermostat, and consider a 3rd rad if it doesn’t have one already. The whole cooling system is not complex, but complicated with many potential points of failure. Some people have proven that the thermostat don’t always fully open when it should. If your car is clean, this is seriously cheap insurance to consider, and most importantly, pre-empt problems.
Oil brand will always be debated, but 0W40 or 5W40 are virtually interchangeable, and Mobil1 will “burn” at a faster rate than say LiquiMoly or Motul though it’s half the cost of those two.
Oil change is too infrequent at 1-2yrs despite mileage as I’d think all oils will degrade over a period of time. Frequent oil changes regardless of mileage is part of the regiment with the LTT water pump and 3rd rad. Consider changing twice a year - oct before winter, and apr in spring.
Anyway, just my .02. My 06 C4S has been treating me really well so far. Would love to see more C4S’s on the road as 997’s in good shape start to become rare these days.
02-16-2018, 06:48 PM
#138
Thanks for the input Fuggit,
I don’t think more scoping would change anything for me and the data would be academic. Either this will become a problem or it won’t, but the course of action is the same either way; maintain the car well, enjoy it, and if symptoms develop then rebuild the engine.
I did the water pump, thermostat and coolant flush last weekend. I bought an “Airlift” vacuum tool for putting the coolant back in and I’ve got to say that thing worked great - all 8 gallons back went back in quickly and with no air pockets. Incidentally, the old water pump looked as perfect as the new one, no wear, no corrosion at all, and the impeller looked new after 11 years. However the PH of the “lifetime” coolant was down at 7.8 (should be around 8.5). I have determined that 1 “Porsche coolant lifetime” is < 10 years. I would say change the coolant if the PH is below 8.0 to avoid corrosion.
I don’t think more scoping would change anything for me and the data would be academic. Either this will become a problem or it won’t, but the course of action is the same either way; maintain the car well, enjoy it, and if symptoms develop then rebuild the engine.
I did the water pump, thermostat and coolant flush last weekend. I bought an “Airlift” vacuum tool for putting the coolant back in and I’ve got to say that thing worked great - all 8 gallons back went back in quickly and with no air pockets. Incidentally, the old water pump looked as perfect as the new one, no wear, no corrosion at all, and the impeller looked new after 11 years. However the PH of the “lifetime” coolant was down at 7.8 (should be around 8.5). I have determined that 1 “Porsche coolant lifetime” is < 10 years. I would say change the coolant if the PH is below 8.0 to avoid corrosion.
02-26-2018, 10:00 PM
#139
Three Wheelin'
2006 Carrera S with 14,6xx miles, no issues. Sold at Hoehn Porsche in San Diego and spent all of her life in Southern California where temperatures are in the 60-70's all year long.
02-27-2018, 05:41 PM
#140
02-28-2018, 02:30 AM
#141
Burning Brakes
blah.. updated the wrong thread.. meant to update the IMSB failure thread
How can I "undo" my vote?
How can I "undo" my vote?
Last edited by shyamvenky; 02-28-2018 at 02:32 AM. Reason: blah.. updated the wrong thread..
03-16-2018, 07:14 PM
#142
Three Wheelin'
I mentioned @Jeffblak's findings to one of the lead mechanics at my indy today. He said virtually every engine he's ever taken apart has some level of striation on the cylinders. He did not feel it was bore scoring. He also added that in 15yrs as a p-car mechanic, including 8 at one of the busiest dealers in the Bay Area, he's never seen a single case of bore scoring in California cars.
03-19-2018, 10:36 AM
#144
Rennlist Member
I can concur we don't see as many CA blocks with scoring as from areas of the country that have seasons (cold weather). Winter fuel blends are horrible and longer warm-ups coupled with shorter drives and even shorter driving seasons when paired with long drain intervals all contribute to the problem.
CA cars are driven year round and get more use and as such, get more frequent servicing.
CA cars are driven year round and get more use and as such, get more frequent servicing.
03-19-2018, 01:07 PM
#145
Three Wheelin'
I can concur we don't see as many CA blocks with scoring as from areas of the country that have seasons (cold weather). Winter fuel blends are horrible and longer warm-ups coupled with shorter drives and even shorter driving seasons when paired with long drain intervals all contribute to the problem.
CA cars are driven year round and get more use and as such, get more frequent servicing.
CA cars are driven year round and get more use and as such, get more frequent servicing.
03-21-2018, 11:52 PM
#146
Racer
Bore Score Maintenance Update
Yes. 2008 C2S Cab -- some scoring near the top of cylinder 6.
Since owning this car I have been scrupulous about keeping it under 4K until the oil reached 200 F, never tracked it. I have been sending in oil samples to Blackstone for the last several oil changes (@ 4,000-5,000 miles each). The analysis always returned very favorable results.
After noticing the sooty LH tail pipe, I had a leak-down test run (normal results) and the #4 plug pulled to check for wetness on that side. Dry. Same story for the next oil change.
This last oil change was my 36,000 mile major service, and all the plugs were changed. #6 was wet. Since the plugs were all out, they borescoped all cylinders and found the scoring at the top of #6. Blackstone flagged the increased oil consumption and noted an ever-so-slight uptick in Aluminum, which I doubt would have concerned them unless they knew about the oil consumption. Basically, the oil analysis was still completely in bounds.
I am currently driving my car every day (with an extra quart of oil in the boot) and carefully recording the oil consumption to measure the magnitude of any additional changes. My plan is to continue driving it, checking #6 with every oil change.
If I can stretch it to 72,000 miles (the next major service), I will have the engine rebuilt then. I would not be surprised to have to pull the trigger much sooner, though, if the scoring worsens or the valves gunk up too much and throw CELs right and left.
Thinking about either a 4.0 liter bore, or an X51 upgrade when that happens. Saving my pennies, and the savings balance at that time will likely determine my choices. The smart money is on a basic rebuild with LN bearing and oiler system, but no fancy stuff.
Once I became sensitized to the symptoms, I have noticed dark LH pipes on a LOT of 997s. I suspect there may be plenty of milder cases that are deteriorating more slowly, but are not recognized yet.
Since owning this car I have been scrupulous about keeping it under 4K until the oil reached 200 F, never tracked it. I have been sending in oil samples to Blackstone for the last several oil changes (@ 4,000-5,000 miles each). The analysis always returned very favorable results.
After noticing the sooty LH tail pipe, I had a leak-down test run (normal results) and the #4 plug pulled to check for wetness on that side. Dry. Same story for the next oil change.
This last oil change was my 36,000 mile major service, and all the plugs were changed. #6 was wet. Since the plugs were all out, they borescoped all cylinders and found the scoring at the top of #6. Blackstone flagged the increased oil consumption and noted an ever-so-slight uptick in Aluminum, which I doubt would have concerned them unless they knew about the oil consumption. Basically, the oil analysis was still completely in bounds.
I am currently driving my car every day (with an extra quart of oil in the boot) and carefully recording the oil consumption to measure the magnitude of any additional changes. My plan is to continue driving it, checking #6 with every oil change.
If I can stretch it to 72,000 miles (the next major service), I will have the engine rebuilt then. I would not be surprised to have to pull the trigger much sooner, though, if the scoring worsens or the valves gunk up too much and throw CELs right and left.
Thinking about either a 4.0 liter bore, or an X51 upgrade when that happens. Saving my pennies, and the savings balance at that time will likely determine my choices. The smart money is on a basic rebuild with LN bearing and oiler system, but no fancy stuff.
Once I became sensitized to the symptoms, I have noticed dark LH pipes on a LOT of 997s. I suspect there may be plenty of milder cases that are deteriorating more slowly, but are not recognized yet.
I write this while looking at the badly scored #6 piston sitting on my desk as a momento.
03-24-2018, 08:38 AM
#148
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I can concur we don't see as many CA blocks with scoring as from areas of the country that have seasons (cold weather). Winter fuel blends are horrible and longer warm-ups coupled with shorter drives and even shorter driving seasons when paired with long drain intervals all contribute to the problem.
CA cars are driven year round and get more use and as such, get more frequent servicing.
CA cars are driven year round and get more use and as such, get more frequent servicing.
03-28-2018, 10:24 PM
#149
Racer
Jeffblak: No. LN did the cylinder replacement and machining as well as the new parts and IMSB modifications. Local indy is putting it all back together handicapped by a real customer-nuisance factor of my presence and considerable forbearance. I've learned a lot about causes and effects, way more than I've seen published to date.
I forgot another advantage of the rebuild: (f) replacing other parts with noticeable wear (e.g., chain adjusters/guides).
I forgot another advantage of the rebuild: (f) replacing other parts with noticeable wear (e.g., chain adjusters/guides).
Last edited by JustinCase; 03-28-2018 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Bad initial editing
03-29-2018, 02:19 AM
#150
Jeffblak: No. LN did the cylinder replacement and machining as well as the new parts and IMSB modifications. Local indy is putting it all back together handicapped by a real customer-nuisance factor of my presence and considerable forbearance. I've learned a lot about causes and effects, way more than I've seen published to date.
I forgot another advantage of the rebuild: (f) replacing other parts with noticeable wear (e.g., chain adjusters/guides).
I forgot another advantage of the rebuild: (f) replacing other parts with noticeable wear (e.g., chain adjusters/guides).