Damn its cold outside -
01-06-2016, 09:03 AM
#33
Race Director
From a 996 thread of a similar nature on bore scoring:
The cold is just one of the variables that play into this. Actual running clearances vary from engine to engine, and the quality of the localism cylinders, and the protective piston skirt coating does, too. The adhesion of this coating to the pistons is a key player in the cylinder failure, as it often occurs first, before the cylinder fails.
No single thing is going to help this scenario. I have tested a block heater kit that we made up, but no one would buy it, and on top of that, when you truly understand the dynamics behind this failure, you realize that engines that are going to die from this are already injured as we talk about this as they have already had the perfect storm set up, and it just has to play out.
This is a failure where luck is the major variable.
The biggest mistake people make is firing the car up in winter and allowing it to warm the cabin before they get in, or allowing too much engine warm up time at idle. This keeps the cold start, and just started enrichment higher and for a longer amount of time. All the while the injectors are dumping excess fuel to help light the catalytic converters off, with help of secondary air injection. This fuel is pure solvent, washing down the oil thats the lifeblood of the cylinders and pistons.
Load= Heat. Get in, strap in, fire up and drive away lightly and the engine will not see nearly as much over- enrichment.
No single thing is going to help this scenario. I have tested a block heater kit that we made up, but no one would buy it, and on top of that, when you truly understand the dynamics behind this failure, you realize that engines that are going to die from this are already injured as we talk about this as they have already had the perfect storm set up, and it just has to play out.
This is a failure where luck is the major variable.
The biggest mistake people make is firing the car up in winter and allowing it to warm the cabin before they get in, or allowing too much engine warm up time at idle. This keeps the cold start, and just started enrichment higher and for a longer amount of time. All the while the injectors are dumping excess fuel to help light the catalytic converters off, with help of secondary air injection. This fuel is pure solvent, washing down the oil thats the lifeblood of the cylinders and pistons.
Load= Heat. Get in, strap in, fire up and drive away lightly and the engine will not see nearly as much over- enrichment.
01-06-2016, 12:59 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Man, it takes awhile for my car to get the coolant warm enough for the heater to make a difference at idle.
That's probably about 10-15 minutes of idling to get to 175*f per the CAN, and I have a third radiator. That is too long.
A minute or two won't hurt anything. At the two minute mark, the engine's just come off fast idle and the coolant temp is around 75-90*f.
That's probably about 10-15 minutes of idling to get to 175*f per the CAN, and I have a third radiator. That is too long.
A minute or two won't hurt anything. At the two minute mark, the engine's just come off fast idle and the coolant temp is around 75-90*f.
01-06-2016, 03:10 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
As far as the weather goes for you guys up north, I can feel your pain!
Winter is also upon us with a vengeance and right now it's a bit nippy outside since we just had a sun shower that dropped the temperature down to 74 degrees. Hell I may even have to close a window and change out of my shorts and T-shirt for warmer clothes.
Bummer!!
Winter is also upon us with a vengeance and right now it's a bit nippy outside since we just had a sun shower that dropped the temperature down to 74 degrees. Hell I may even have to close a window and change out of my shorts and T-shirt for warmer clothes.
Bummer!!
01-06-2016, 04:58 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
If I had to wait to get my engine so warm that the cabin was warm, I could take a shower and get dressed in that time.
I back out of my garage when the fast idle drops. By the time I get into the street and get my absent mind squared away, I am probably always at the 2-3 minute mark, and if it's really cold out, it's gonna be some time before I can really get on it.
.
I back out of my garage when the fast idle drops. By the time I get into the street and get my absent mind squared away, I am probably always at the 2-3 minute mark, and if it's really cold out, it's gonna be some time before I can really get on it.
.
01-07-2016, 10:58 AM
#38
01-07-2016, 04:20 PM
#40
I learned to drive by riding a dirt bike in the snow (my Dad on the snowmobile). I rode my RD350 in the snow as well.
The coldest I've ever been was a ride on a Honda 750SS New Years Day from Phoenix to LA. That was 37 years ago and I still remember it (too) well.
FWIW, I went to (under grad) college in a little town where every February we had a week where the high was -30F.
I do know cold. No need to explain the gloves. My proverbial hat is of to you
The coldest I've ever been was a ride on a Honda 750SS New Years Day from Phoenix to LA. That was 37 years ago and I still remember it (too) well.
FWIW, I went to (under grad) college in a little town where every February we had a week where the high was -30F.
I do know cold. No need to explain the gloves. My proverbial hat is of to you
01-08-2016, 10:44 AM
#42
OK. Coldest day yet here. I had to leave my 911 outside due to garage renovations. Came out to a snow covered car. Started right up and let it warm up while I brushed it off. Outside temp showed as -23C (that's -8F for our southern friends). Tranny a bit stiff on the first couple of shifts and took a long time to warm up but works great. When I got to work and walked away from it I was thinking of the Porsche Camp 4 winter driving experience they have north of Montreal. The 911 is actually a really great winter vehicle.
Cheers
Cheers
01-08-2016, 11:24 AM
#43
Burning Brakes
Yeah, no, sorry.
Gotta be at least 45*f for me to wake up and dust off any of the iron horses. No winter gear, admittedly.
In my younger, more reckless days I'd ride my old GSX-R 750 down to 17*f on track-weary Pirelli Supercorsas wearing my dad's AGV armored jacket with a hoodie underneath, a scarf, ski pants and ski gloves, Spidi boots with warm socks, and a balaclava under my helmet.
Gotta be at least 45*f for me to wake up and dust off any of the iron horses. No winter gear, admittedly.
In my younger, more reckless days I'd ride my old GSX-R 750 down to 17*f on track-weary Pirelli Supercorsas wearing my dad's AGV armored jacket with a hoodie underneath, a scarf, ski pants and ski gloves, Spidi boots with warm socks, and a balaclava under my helmet.
01-08-2016, 12:33 PM
#44
Man, it takes awhile for my car to get the coolant warm enough for the heater to make a difference at idle.
That's probably about 10-15 minutes of idling to get to 175*f per the CAN, and I have a third radiator. That is too long.
A minute or two won't hurt anything. At the two minute mark, the engine's just come off fast idle and the coolant temp is around 75-90*f.
That's probably about 10-15 minutes of idling to get to 175*f per the CAN, and I have a third radiator. That is too long.
A minute or two won't hurt anything. At the two minute mark, the engine's just come off fast idle and the coolant temp is around 75-90*f.
01-08-2016, 12:39 PM
#45
I was in McLean earlier this week, actually. It was definitely colder than a few weeks ago.
My driveway is such that I have to back out, do a single point, go forward 15 or 20 yards, then exit my driveway and only go about 40 yards before a stop sign. I do all of that slowly enough that I think it makes for a decent warm-up.
My driveway is such that I have to back out, do a single point, go forward 15 or 20 yards, then exit my driveway and only go about 40 yards before a stop sign. I do all of that slowly enough that I think it makes for a decent warm-up.