Is the 997 the last of it's kind?
05-25-2015 | 07:53 PM
#16
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,190
Likes: 38
From: Bogota / Navarre Beach
.......and the 964 is the last of the 1st gen 911s. And the 993 is the last of the air cooled. And the 996 is the first water cooled, and the 997.1 is the last of the non-DFE/hydraulic steering 911s. And the .2 introduced DFE......all of these represent significant milestones for the 911 model, and make each of the models historically important. But to think the 997s are collectible because they have a shorter wheelbase than 991(while longer than the original 911) and hydraulic steering doesn't make sense to me.
What's ironic about the whole question of collectibility, IMO, is the circumstances that led to the 993 being rare and therefore collectible: I'm not the most knowledgeable on the forum, but I believe Porsche was failing as a brand. Sales in 1998 fell to around 5000 units annually, I believe. The car was antiquated in technology and performance, and was way overpriced compared to cars like the Supra, NSX, and RX7. I bought a low mileage 993 in 2010 and had it modded for the track. It was fun, but the build quality was so poor that trying to keep it up to modern car's standards was a losing battle. The fitment was terrible. I could fit my fingers between the dash and door panels. The AC didn't work well. All the head gaskets leaked by 40k miles. The stereos were Godawful. Before mods it handled like a covered wagon. By today's standards they were not great cars. But, there were hardly any built and the motor makes a cool sound. So I guess its collectible. At the risk of being labled a heretic I just don't see it. These 993 prices are insane.
What's ironic about the whole question of collectibility, IMO, is the circumstances that led to the 993 being rare and therefore collectible: I'm not the most knowledgeable on the forum, but I believe Porsche was failing as a brand. Sales in 1998 fell to around 5000 units annually, I believe. The car was antiquated in technology and performance, and was way overpriced compared to cars like the Supra, NSX, and RX7. I bought a low mileage 993 in 2010 and had it modded for the track. It was fun, but the build quality was so poor that trying to keep it up to modern car's standards was a losing battle. The fitment was terrible. I could fit my fingers between the dash and door panels. The AC didn't work well. All the head gaskets leaked by 40k miles. The stereos were Godawful. Before mods it handled like a covered wagon. By today's standards they were not great cars. But, there were hardly any built and the motor makes a cool sound. So I guess its collectible. At the risk of being labled a heretic I just don't see it. These 993 prices are insane.
Last edited by Para82; 05-25-2015 at 09:01 PM.
05-25-2015 | 10:01 PM
#18
Racer
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
From: San Mateo
What I love about my wife's '11 Carrera S cab is that it is such a "pure" sports car -- 6-speed manual, no buttons or switches on the steering wheel, just incredible driving pleasure.
You can tell the German engineers (we've also owned BMW and 4 Audi's) are reluctant even to put in cupholders. "Who drinks in their cars?" they wonder.
You can tell the German engineers (we've also owned BMW and 4 Audi's) are reluctant even to put in cupholders. "Who drinks in their cars?" they wonder.
05-25-2015 | 10:22 PM
#19
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,716
Likes: 1,451
From: Clifton, NJ
.......and the 964 is the last of the 1st gen 911s. And the 993 is the last of the air cooled. And the 996 is the first water cooled, and the 997.1 is the last of the non-DFE/hydraulic steering 911s. And the .2 introduced DFE......all of these represent significant milestones for the 911 model, and make each of the models historically important. But to think the 997s are collectible because they have a shorter wheelbase than 991(while longer than the original 911) and hydraulic steering doesn't make sense to me.
What's ironic about the whole question of collectibility, IMO, is the circumstances that led to the 993 being rare and therefore collectible: I'm not the most knowledgeable on the forum, but I believe Porsche was failing as a brand. Sales in 1998 fell to around 5000 units annually, I believe. The car was antiquated in technology and performance, and was way overpriced compared to cars like the Supra, NSX, and RX7. I bought a low mileage 993 in 2010 and had it modded for the track. It was fun, but the build quality was so poor that trying to keep it up to modern car's standards was a losing battle. The fitment was terrible. I could fit my fingers between the dash and door panels. The AC didn't work well. All the head gaskets leaked by 40k miles. The stereos were Godawful. Before mods it handled like a covered wagon. By today's standards they were not great cars. But, there were hardly any built and the motor makes a cool sound. So I guess its collectible. At the risk of being labled a heretic I just don't see it. These 993 prices are insane.
What's ironic about the whole question of collectibility, IMO, is the circumstances that led to the 993 being rare and therefore collectible: I'm not the most knowledgeable on the forum, but I believe Porsche was failing as a brand. Sales in 1998 fell to around 5000 units annually, I believe. The car was antiquated in technology and performance, and was way overpriced compared to cars like the Supra, NSX, and RX7. I bought a low mileage 993 in 2010 and had it modded for the track. It was fun, but the build quality was so poor that trying to keep it up to modern car's standards was a losing battle. The fitment was terrible. I could fit my fingers between the dash and door panels. The AC didn't work well. All the head gaskets leaked by 40k miles. The stereos were Godawful. Before mods it handled like a covered wagon. By today's standards they were not great cars. But, there were hardly any built and the motor makes a cool sound. So I guess its collectible. At the risk of being labled a heretic I just don't see it. These 993 prices are insane.
this post is laughable.
build quality on my 993 makes my 997 look like a tinker toy
05-25-2015 | 11:54 PM
#20
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
997.1 started in 2005, so there would be more 997.1s
and 997.2 ended in 2012 but I think only Turbos were available then.
I did some research when I bought my car... the first number is US and the second Canadian sales. These are just for Carrera S Coupes.
997 Production Numbers for Carrera 2S Coupe
05 - 2,386 / 125
06 - 2,945 / 134
07 - 1,707 / 78
08 - 1,187 / 47
09 - 1,417 / 75
10 - 454 / 55
11 - 656 / 19
and 997.2 ended in 2012 but I think only Turbos were available then.
I did some research when I bought my car... the first number is US and the second Canadian sales. These are just for Carrera S Coupes.
997 Production Numbers for Carrera 2S Coupe
05 - 2,386 / 125
06 - 2,945 / 134
07 - 1,707 / 78
08 - 1,187 / 47
09 - 1,417 / 75
10 - 454 / 55
11 - 656 / 19
05-26-2015 | 01:08 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 4
From: San Mateo, CA
As my Avatar displays a 993, I also have a '11 997.2 GTS and '88 3.2. As years progress forward, the "interaction experience" fades. The current 991 is claimed by some to be more of a "GT" like the Panamera than a pure 911. Just remember, there's something out there for everyone and their driving style…..
05-26-2015 | 01:37 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,313
Likes: 402
From: Southwest
Exactly right. The G series is the final evolution of the classic series 901 and the 997.2 is the last evolution of the pendulum-dynamics water-cooled 911s prior to the inflection point evolution towards a 'balanced' 911.
05-26-2015 | 01:43 AM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,313
Likes: 402
From: Southwest
There are G-series 3.2s selling above $60k. And those cars are not quirky - they have character. Of course, they require skilled drivers, drivers who truly get what driving a 911 is. Listen to what the Master says:
05-26-2015 | 02:05 AM
#24
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 115
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles
I would too (maybe except for a 991 GTS 7 spd), but after test driving a PDK 991 S last year, I liked my car better, it felt slower but more raw and connected. But most new 911 buyers are not enthusiasts, the car is more of a status symbol. And that's why in Canada at least the dealers only stock PDK, if you want a manual its a special order car.
So 30 years from now, will Porsche be more of a luxury status brand or an enthusiast brand. Probably the former. I feel the trend is more towards refinement.
And I meant most new buyers (never owned a 911 before) would likely take a 991 over a 997.
So 30 years from now, will Porsche be more of a luxury status brand or an enthusiast brand. Probably the former. I feel the trend is more towards refinement.
And I meant most new buyers (never owned a 911 before) would likely take a 991 over a 997.
05-26-2015 | 06:46 AM
#25
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,190
Likes: 38
From: Bogota / Navarre Beach
You have not been checking classic prices lately, have you?
There are G-series 3.2s selling above $60k. And those cars are not quirky - they have character. Of course, they require skilled drivers, drivers who truly get what driving a 911 is. Listen to what the Master says:
On Balance With Vic Elford in the Around the World Porsche 911 - Pebble Beach - YouTube
There are G-series 3.2s selling above $60k. And those cars are not quirky - they have character. Of course, they require skilled drivers, drivers who truly get what driving a 911 is. Listen to what the Master says:
On Balance With Vic Elford in the Around the World Porsche 911 - Pebble Beach - YouTube
05-26-2015 | 11:29 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 787
Likes: 276
From: The Rocket City
and the 964 was the last of the hand built 911's. I kinda wish I hadn't sold mine but i love my 997. In fact here is my 964 if anybody wants to have a go
.......and the 964 is the last of the 1st gen 911s. And the 993 is the last of the air cooled. And the 996 is the first water cooled, and the 997.1 is the last of the non-DFE/hydraulic steering 911s. And the .2 introduced DFE......all of these represent significant milestones for the 911 model, and make each of the models historically important. But to think the 997s are collectible because they have a shorter wheelbase than 991(while longer than the original 911) and hydraulic steering doesn't make sense to me.
What's ironic about the whole question of collectibility, IMO, is the circumstances that led to the 993 being rare and therefore collectible: I'm not the most knowledgeable on the forum, but I believe Porsche was failing as a brand. Sales in 1998 fell to around 5000 units annually, I believe. The car was antiquated in technology and performance, and was way overpriced compared to cars like the Supra, NSX, and RX7. I bought a low mileage 993 in 2010 and had it modded for the track. It was fun, but the build quality was so poor that trying to keep it up to modern car's standards was a losing battle. The fitment was terrible. I could fit my fingers between the dash and door panels. The AC didn't work well. All the head gaskets leaked by 40k miles. The stereos were Godawful. Before mods it handled like a covered wagon. By today's standards they were not great cars. But, there were hardly any built and the motor makes a cool sound. So I guess its collectible. At the risk of being labled a heretic I just don't see it. These 993 prices are insane.
What's ironic about the whole question of collectibility, IMO, is the circumstances that led to the 993 being rare and therefore collectible: I'm not the most knowledgeable on the forum, but I believe Porsche was failing as a brand. Sales in 1998 fell to around 5000 units annually, I believe. The car was antiquated in technology and performance, and was way overpriced compared to cars like the Supra, NSX, and RX7. I bought a low mileage 993 in 2010 and had it modded for the track. It was fun, but the build quality was so poor that trying to keep it up to modern car's standards was a losing battle. The fitment was terrible. I could fit my fingers between the dash and door panels. The AC didn't work well. All the head gaskets leaked by 40k miles. The stereos were Godawful. Before mods it handled like a covered wagon. By today's standards they were not great cars. But, there were hardly any built and the motor makes a cool sound. So I guess its collectible. At the risk of being labled a heretic I just don't see it. These 993 prices are insane.
05-26-2015 | 01:06 PM
#27
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 104
Likes: 1
From: Richmond Hill
997 numbers
I was thinking the exact same thing. It would be nice if these are the correct numbers since my car is now more " collectible"
05-26-2015 | 06:51 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 25
From: Flanders, BE
I have owned every model of the 911 series up until the 997 series.
Many 3 or more times.
I can honestly say the 997 is best regarding fit and finish.
I would think the 991 will even be better still.
Your 997 must have been a very abused car if you find it to be of less build quality than your 993.
05-26-2015 | 07:56 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 124
From: Santa Fe, NM
Are you seriously saying the build quality is better on your 993 ?
I have owned every model of the 911 series up until the 997 series.
Many 3 or more times.
I can honestly say the 997 is best regarding fit and finish.
I would think the 991 will even be better still.
Your 997 must have been a very abused car if you find it to be of less build quality than your 993.
I have owned every model of the 911 series up until the 997 series.
Many 3 or more times.
I can honestly say the 997 is best regarding fit and finish.
I would think the 991 will even be better still.
Your 997 must have been a very abused car if you find it to be of less build quality than your 993.