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Ok, from my understanding tires with less than 4 mm of tread must be replaced during the CPO process. On my car, I'm quite certain both fronts and rears should have been replaced, but in the CPO report they said 80% of tread life is left on the fronts, and 65% is on the rears. They also said that 50% = their 4 mm threshold. Can you guys take a look at the following pictures to let me know if I'm being unreasonable, or was this truly a huge mistake made by the dealer during the CPO process. I'm going to the dealer this weekend to have them replace them, but I want to arm myself with certainty should they try and get me to pay for any of this. I bought the car about a month ago from a dealer that's a 3 hour drive from me, so it's not exactly easy to get up there.
Additionally, the front tires are from 2009, and the rears are from 2010 and 2011... Past the recommended shelf life for this rubber.
Penny Head - 2/23" = 1.578 mm
Quarter Head - 4/32" = 3.175 mm
You need one of these. And you need to measure more than one grove. And you need to do your due diligence before you buy a product, for best leverage, not after. Good luck.
I agree with doing the due diligence part... I researched for years prior to buying, but so much information has to be synthesized in a short period of time, so I missed this. I had my mechanic give the car a once over after i got it home and he gave it a very clean bill of health sans the tires. The dealer has been very reasonable about making this right and I'm not horribly upset with them as we are all human and make mistakes.
The dealer has been very reasonable about making this right and I'm not horribly upset with them as we are all human and make mistakes.
Good attitude. I'm sure you and the dealership can find a resolution that is equitable to both. You might have to pay a little, but hopefully get 4 new tires out of the process. Negotiate on the actual tires prices only, they should pay 100% of the labor, since in a way, it's a "fixed" cost and they dropped the ball the first time.
Pick a good tire. They might only be able to install an N rated tire, but the Michelin Super Sports would be my choice, but NOT N rated. See if they will do those. Cheaper for all involved.
I'm surprised the fronts went out the door with a 2009 DOT date on them. Porsche won't certify with tires aged more than six years and those are so close you have no chance of using them for their useful life, especially if they'd met CPO spec of 50% tread left.
If its any consolation I missed looking at the DOT dates on my tires when I picked it up. Tread was fine, but the tires were already three or more years old. Live and learn. I auto crossed on those tires and got some new ones.
Good luck! Hopefully the dealer does right by you.
Thanks for the replies! I didn't think about coming at it from the cost saving angle of non-N tires. I'll definitely throw that in the mix if it goes down the negotiation route.
The dealer said if they are indeed out of CPO spec, they'll replace them at their cost, including alignment. If they are within spec, they said they'd give me 50% off out of good faith. I am very appreciative of their willingness to work with me and if this gets resolved well, I will definitely post a positive review for them.
The tire date shocked me as well, but I haven't seen any CPO documentation that says they must replace expired tires.
The reason for this post was to make sure I'm not being unreasonable. I'm an enthusiast, but no where near a professional, so the tire measurement estimates I provided look worn to me, but I wanted a second opinion. Shouldn't you go by the lowest measurement on the tire? As you would imagine, the outer groves have much more tread depth than the inners.
You're being very reasonable. When I got my CPO car, I identified a handful of items I wanted taken care of by the dealer. I agreed to purchase the car, and they agreed to take care of the items. The car was already CPO'd at that point...
My dealer where I bought the car was NOT overly reasonable when it came down to enforcing the items, but they were done, and I had another dealer confirm they were done well. CPO isn't the be-all, end-all, it is just good comfort for the larger items.
Sounds like your dealer is responding appropriately. Because of the PITA my dealer was I effectively switched to a different servicing dealer. This new dealer has already made some $$$ off me to do some upgrades and are the ones providing all service for the car. It is worth it in the long-run for both parties to be happy up-front :-)
That said, your coin test certainly appears to show far less than 4mm. Using the same-age test mentioned above, even if only one of the tires had to be replaced for tread depth then they would all have to be replaced. I'd think you have a good case here.
Edit: Come to think of it, your tires already fail the same-age test even regardless of the depth!
That said, your coin test certainly appears to show far less than 4mm. Using the same-age test mentioned above, even if only one of the tires had to be replaced for tread depth then they would all have to be replaced. I'd think you have a good case here.
Edit: Come to think of it, your tires already fail the same-age test even regardless of the depth!
Good luck!
Good catch on the age, I didn't see that disclaimer. I think that will be the nail in the coffin if they question the tread depth. I feel that I have a strong case to present, so hopefully I'll be enjoying some fresh tires tomorrow afternoon!
When I traded in my Mazda CX-9 in very good condition (only 50K miles in 6 years, nearly flawless paint, tires with less than 10K on them) for my current ride, Audi Q5, I tried to get more for the trade-in arguing, in part, that it needed very little reconditioning. The dealer, however, said they always put new tires on trade-ins, no exceptions. Maybe it's just that dealer? The Q came with brand-new tires (36K on the odo) so I figured they weren't just bluffing.
I'm surprised the fronts went out the door with a 2009 DOT date on them. Porsche won't certify with tires aged more than six years and those are so close you have no chance of using them for their useful life, especially if they'd met CPO spec of 50% tread left.
If its any consolation I missed looking at the DOT dates on my tires when I picked it up. Tread was fine, but the tires were already three or more years old. Live and learn. I auto crossed on those tires and got some new ones.
Good luck! Hopefully the dealer does right by you.
I think that cpo is alittle bit of a crock o ****. They do quickly check over the car but I. Doubt they really check everything out. Anybody have any real would experience?
Good attitude. I'm sure you and the dealership can find a resolution that is equitable to both. You might have to pay a little, but hopefully get 4 new tires out of the process. Negotiate on the actual tires prices only, they should pay 100% of the labor, since in a way, it's a "fixed" cost and they dropped the ball the first time.
Pick a good tire. They might only be able to install an N rated tire, but the Michelin Super Sports would be my choice, but NOT N rated. See if they will do those. Cheaper for all involved.
Good luck.
Unfortunately, CPO requires replacement with "N" rated tires.
05-08-2015, 10:06 AM
