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Sambb is low on the going prices for the cars here and in other threads.
The price you're getting is actually on the low side (i.e., potentially great deal but I'd actually be a bit wary) and appears to reflect two things:
1) replacement of the brakes (and you're getting black, not red painted ones, which is not ideal and a bit odd)
2) replacement of the PDK system (I think this is actually a positive but it is a serious enough replacement to slightly impact the market value)
Have a close look at the condition of the car. At 40k miles there will be a wide disparity. Also, how many prior owners on record? That could have helped bring the price down.
Base model 997.1 C2/C4 had black calipers. Sport model C2S/C4S had red calipers. PCCB option is yellow calipers. Not positive but I thought 997.2 followed the same model. Sometimes calipers turn nasty colors from excessive heat on the track too.
The most likely scenario is the prior owner replaced the PCCB ceramic rotors with metal versions, along with the calipers at the same time. Why would someone do this on a relatively young/low mileage car? Because they either (1) tracked the car and did not want to destroy the expensive ceramic rotors or (2) sold off the expensive PCCB option pocketing the cash prior to selling the car. Take this into consideration when pricing the car.
Are there any telltale signs of a tracked car? I see the car had two PCA stickers on it. Is there anything specifically about a tracked car that would scare you away from a CPO purchase?
I think at this price, I still feel good about it not including the PCCB. Although, the PCCB would be a major bonus!
Thats a good list of options....the full leather and sports exhaust is not something typically found. But ask about those brakes, if they are not the PCCB, then you are screwed at resale value.....that's a expensive option.
I'd ask about the brakes, but not re: PCCB or not. The pricing reflects no PCCB so you won't be impacted any differently on resale EXCEPT for the odd situation of having the black calipers on an S model car...
Thats what is not clear to me.....does it really? I don't think he was told that by the dealer, his options list the PCCB....the OP will have to answer that question.
Thats what is not clear to me.....does it really? I don't think he was told that by the dealer, his options list the PCCB....the OP will have to answer that question.
This was not disclosed by the dealer. It's listed on their website as having this option, but in no conversation did the dealer say "this price is what it is because it has PCCB."
Just based off of market rates, I don't think this price reflects PCCB. However, when I go to review the car in person tomorrow, this will be on my list of items to check.
I can't tell from the pictures if those are rusty iron rotors, or the matte finish off carbon ceramic. To me, it could go either way, the only thing that threw me off were the black calipers, which, like was stated here, do not belong on an S car, indicating there was at the least some prior owner modification.
Thats what is not clear to me.....does it really? I don't think he was told that by the dealer, his options list the PCCB....the OP will have to answer that question.
Let me rephrase; the pricing doesn't reflect PCCB.
In other words, the pricing is low for PCCB or without PCCB, regardless of original options listed for the car.
If it has PCCB, that is okay... I would likely prefer not having it for street driving, but that might just be me.
If it doesn't have PCCB, that is okay too. The price won't be lower due to lacking that option.
If something happened that required swapping out the brakes, and the replacements are X, Y or Z (other than standard carrera S brakes) and also because the calipers aren't red (which will complicate selling/explaining later) then I can see that has resulted in the price being lowered.
My point is that the price already reflects something other than a bone stock, perfectly maintained car with that option list. There is a reason why it is priced on the lower end of the range, and the potential buyer should just determine why that is and then make a decision.
Those rotors are ceramic. You can tell by the fasteners on the rotor hats. The calipers look clean too. Either they were refinished to black or custom ordered that way.
Check the rotor condition very closely. Look for edge chips and cracks between the holes. Ceramic rotor replacement is very expensive upwards of $8K per axle.
Also notice the clear corners. Can a car be CPO'd with clear corners? I thought this was a non-US option. Not an issue really but does raise questions about the CPO process. I'd ask the selling dealer about both the non-standard black calipers with ceramic rotors, and non-standard clear corners.
Excellent! It never ceases to amaze me how knowledgeable this forum is. I attempted to make the discernment last night by identifying the mounting hardware, but wasn't able to get a clear cut comparison picture.
I'll make sure to inspect the rotors closely. Would their failure be covered under CPO since it wouldn't be wear and tear, but more so material defect?
I have read too many forum posts saying how a CPO certification is only as good as the tech that conducts it.
Worst case scenario is to convert back to standard brakes for $1800:
Whats with the dirty/dingy looking wheel bolts? Three of them have some kind of spooge on them.
Yea, I saw that too... Definitely strange, but also a cheap and easy fix. My 3-series with 135k miles on salted roads has cleaner lugs. Maybe another indication of tracking? They could have been scuffed up when removing street wheels to replace with track wheels several times, exposing a raw surface that rusts?
Just a refinement to patpetillo's comment that a PDK cannot have over-revs: It is possible for a PDK to show some small number of over-revs in range 1. Mine does. When running in Sport Plus the rev limiter becomes a hard limiter exactly at red line and can allow a few revs to sneak over into the range 1 count. If you see range 1 numbers on the DME report they are not a real concern. There should be no range 2 or higher.
Otherwise the car looks very well priced to me... that's quite the options list, with those options I would expect an even higher price. The ventilated seats will be a wonderful thing in Florida, they work well for me in Texas. As noted elsewhere, the black calipers are the only apparent curiosity. I'd expect the dealer to explain those. I'd ask for new wheel bolts as part of the deal... the rust on those messes up the look.
My take is that the fresh PDK as a good thing unless you are a short-term hold and flip kind of buyer... then you'll have to explain to the next buyer.
Base model 997.1 C2/C4 had black calipers. Sport model C2S/C4S had red calipers. PCCB option is yellow calipers. Not positive but I thought 997.2 followed the same model. Sometimes calipers turn nasty colors from excessive heat on the track too.
The most likely scenario is the prior owner replaced the PCCB ceramic rotors with metal versions, along with the calipers at the same time. Why would someone do this on a relatively young/low mileage car? Because they either (1) tracked the car and did not want to destroy the expensive ceramic rotors or (2) sold off the expensive PCCB option pocketing the cash prior to selling the car. Take this into consideration when pricing the car.
Originally Posted by SpeedyD
Sambb is low on the going prices for the cars here and in other threads.
The price you're getting is actually on the low side (i.e., potentially great deal but I'd actually be a bit wary) and appears to reflect two things:
1) replacement of the brakes (and you're getting black, not red painted ones, which is not ideal and a bit odd)
2) replacement of the PDK system (I think this is actually a positive but it is a serious enough replacement to slightly impact the market value)
Have a close look at the condition of the car. At 40k miles there will be a wide disparity. Also, how many prior owners on record? That could have helped bring the price down.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Again, my experiences are based on shopping extensively a month ago. There were 2 CPO 2011 GTS cars for high 60s available. There were several dealers offering c2s and c4s for 8-10k off of the advertised price when calling them and negotiating. Maybe prices have gone up since then. There was snow on the ground in several areas. Maybe in spring, prices firm up. I think this car is a fair deal at best, and wish you Good luck. Don't be put off by higher prices advertised, you will be surprised what you can get when you walk into a dealer. I was very pleasantly surprised on CPO cars.
I took a look at the listing. There are some customization elements to the car, so the black paint on the calipers might not be too surprising. Definitely give it a good look over because the wear/tear items that aren't defective but rather more subjective / condition oriented, won't be covered under CPO.
If everything checks out, I think this is a great deal on a very, very, very nicely optioned car. My guess is that it was tracked (and perhaps heavily), however, so keep an eye for any issues that might be related to that.
To clarify -- I said the tracking part based mostly on the fire extinguisher option for the car, possibly the tranny replacement (recent), the LSD option, PCCB option, and the (possible) modification or replacement of the calipers. That set of options and information hints at track use. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
Other than lacking the sport design steering wheel, they really went all-out on the car!
03-27-2015, 11:12 AM
