Low Friction Point - Early Clutch Grab
11-25-2014, 07:18 AM
#1
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Low Friction Point - Early Clutch Grab
2007 Carrera 4S with 32k miles.
The friction point on my car is normally about halfway from the floor. Just the other day, for the first time, the friction point seemed to have changed and now the clutch grabs at about 2 inches from the floor and it's very difficult to shift into 1st and reverse from a stop. It's been doing this ever since. I have searched the forums for a similar issue and it sounds like the clutch. However, I can't seem to find anyone who's clutch grabs so low.......the clutch engages almost immediately when you start to release your foot off the clutch pedal.
Anybody else have this issue? Air in the line? Slave cylinder?
The friction point on my car is normally about halfway from the floor. Just the other day, for the first time, the friction point seemed to have changed and now the clutch grabs at about 2 inches from the floor and it's very difficult to shift into 1st and reverse from a stop. It's been doing this ever since. I have searched the forums for a similar issue and it sounds like the clutch. However, I can't seem to find anyone who's clutch grabs so low.......the clutch engages almost immediately when you start to release your foot off the clutch pedal.
Anybody else have this issue? Air in the line? Slave cylinder?
11-25-2014, 10:02 AM
#2
Instructor
Air in the hydraulic system will exhibit the symptoms you mention. My clutch responded in a similar way after I replaced the slave cylinder--basically, the engagement point was very near the floor. I bled the system a few times and now the friction point is back to roughly the mid point in travel. Note that I had air in my system because I had to disconnect the hydraulic line to put the new slave on.
The issue is that air shouldn't randomly appear in the hydraulic system...unless for some reason your reservoir ran dry. If you haven't disconnected a hydraulic line recently, I think you might have another problem that's letting air in. I seem to recall a thread a couple of months back where someone complained of air getting in the hydraulic system. They fixed it by replacing one of the cylinders--I just don't recall which one off the top of my head. In my case, my slave was bad...but it wasn't actually leaking.
Now that I think about it, the clutch and brakes are all connected to the same hydraulic system. When I had air in the lines, my brakes were also squishier than normal. Has your brake feel changed at all?
The issue is that air shouldn't randomly appear in the hydraulic system...unless for some reason your reservoir ran dry. If you haven't disconnected a hydraulic line recently, I think you might have another problem that's letting air in. I seem to recall a thread a couple of months back where someone complained of air getting in the hydraulic system. They fixed it by replacing one of the cylinders--I just don't recall which one off the top of my head. In my case, my slave was bad...but it wasn't actually leaking.
Now that I think about it, the clutch and brakes are all connected to the same hydraulic system. When I had air in the lines, my brakes were also squishier than normal. Has your brake feel changed at all?
Last edited by Rotmilky; 11-25-2014 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Remembered brakes and clutch are connected.
11-25-2014, 11:43 AM
#3
Race Director
When was the brake/clutch fluid last flushed and bled?
This should be done every 2 years. While I have never noticed any issues from the brakes when the fluid is past its flush/bleed by date nor any improvement after having this done, with the clutch that's been a different story.
Get the car treated to a proper brake/clutch fluid flush and bleed then see how the clutch behaves/feels.
This should be done every 2 years. While I have never noticed any issues from the brakes when the fluid is past its flush/bleed by date nor any improvement after having this done, with the clutch that's been a different story.
Get the car treated to a proper brake/clutch fluid flush and bleed then see how the clutch behaves/feels.
11-25-2014, 04:49 PM
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Air in the hydraulic system will exhibit the symptoms you mention. My clutch responded in a similar way after I replaced the slave cylinder--basically, the engagement point was very near the floor. I bled the system a few times and now the friction point is back to roughly the mid point in travel. Note that I had air in my system because I had to disconnect the hydraulic line to put the new slave on.
The issue is that air shouldn't randomly appear in the hydraulic system...unless for some reason your reservoir ran dry. If you haven't disconnected a hydraulic line recently, I think you might have another problem that's letting air in. I seem to recall a thread a couple of months back where someone complained of air getting in the hydraulic system. They fixed it by replacing one of the cylinders--I just don't recall which one off the top of my head. In my case, my slave was bad...but it wasn't actually leaking.
Now that I think about it, the clutch and brakes are all connected to the same hydraulic system. When I had air in the lines, my brakes were also squishier than normal. Has your brake feel changed at all?
The issue is that air shouldn't randomly appear in the hydraulic system...unless for some reason your reservoir ran dry. If you haven't disconnected a hydraulic line recently, I think you might have another problem that's letting air in. I seem to recall a thread a couple of months back where someone complained of air getting in the hydraulic system. They fixed it by replacing one of the cylinders--I just don't recall which one off the top of my head. In my case, my slave was bad...but it wasn't actually leaking.
Now that I think about it, the clutch and brakes are all connected to the same hydraulic system. When I had air in the lines, my brakes were also squishier than normal. Has your brake feel changed at all?
11-25-2014, 04:51 PM
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When was the brake/clutch fluid last flushed and bled?
This should be done every 2 years. While I have never noticed any issues from the brakes when the fluid is past its flush/bleed by date nor any improvement after having this done, with the clutch that's been a different story.
Get the car treated to a proper brake/clutch fluid flush and bleed then see how the clutch behaves/feels.
This should be done every 2 years. While I have never noticed any issues from the brakes when the fluid is past its flush/bleed by date nor any improvement after having this done, with the clutch that's been a different story.
Get the car treated to a proper brake/clutch fluid flush and bleed then see how the clutch behaves/feels.
and it's an '07. That would explain alot. Hopefully, this will solve the issue because it sounds alot less pricey than a new clutch!
11-26-2014, 12:29 PM
#6
Race Director
Even after just 2.5 years I found the clutch fluid can account for a misbehaving clutch and because of this what seemed to be a misbehaving transmission.
Briefly, no matter how hard I tried, no matter how much I focused on it, I was not able to get a smooth take off from stop in my Boxster. Previously this was not a problem and with over 280K miles (at the time) on the clutch obviously smooth take offs, smooth operation of the clutch, has been practiced.
Also, it seemed like no matter how hard I pushed down on the clutch, how much I tried to properly time the shift, the shifting never was smooth.
The transmission fluid was reasonably fresh and the right stuff, too, so I ruled this out.
I was at the dealer talking to the SM about the behavior and the subject of brake/clutch fluid flushing came up. He looked up the car's service records and found the last fluid flush/bleed was done around 2.5 years ago. I know this is scheduled to be done every 2 years -- and I am pretty good about having this done every 2 years but I lost track of time. While I thought it unlikely that 2.5 years would be too long I booked the car in for the service.
When I got car back smooth take offs were back and the transmission shifted with no issues at all.
The brakes felt fine before the flush and they felt the same afterwards. But the improvement in the clutch's action and transmission's shifting was remarkable.
I would "throw" a brake/clutch fluid flush/bleed at a clutch (or braking) problem (that wasn't obviously mechanical in nature like slippage) or transmission shifting problem before I'd elect to fund a clutch R&R or a transmission rebuild.
11-27-2014, 12:09 PM
#7
RL Community Team
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Macster, does just bleeding the brakes using a Power Bleeder also bleed the clutch fluid or do I have to do the clutch or brake actuation procedure with Durametric to actually get the fluid that's part of the clutch system renewed. I did the Durametric process when installing stainless lines and swapping Big Reds for PCCBs between my two cars and haven't had any clutch or brake issues since. Thanks and let me know.
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11-27-2014, 12:55 PM
#8
The brakes and clutch share the same hydraulic fluid. The 997.1 clutch slave cylinder has an additional bleeder screw attached to it. The complete flush procedure goes to each caliper and the slave cylinder.
The 997.2 does not have the extra bleed screw on the clutch slave cylinder. Instead it has a return hydraulic line to self-recirculate in that part of the system. Not sure on the exact procedure but it does involve pumping the clutch to circulate the fresh fluid. Or you could activate it with Durametric.
The 997.2 does not have the extra bleed screw on the clutch slave cylinder. Instead it has a return hydraulic line to self-recirculate in that part of the system. Not sure on the exact procedure but it does involve pumping the clutch to circulate the fresh fluid. Or you could activate it with Durametric.
11-28-2014, 09:05 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
Air in the hydraulic system will exhibit the symptoms you mention. My clutch responded in a similar way after I replaced the slave cylinder--basically, the engagement point was very near the floor. I bled the system a few times and now the friction point is back to roughly the mid point in travel. Note that I had air in my system because I had to disconnect the hydraulic line to put the new slave on.
The issue is that air shouldn't randomly appear in the hydraulic system...unless for some reason your reservoir ran dry. If you haven't disconnected a hydraulic line recently, I think you might have another problem that's letting air in. I seem to recall a thread a couple of months back where someone complained of air getting in the hydraulic system. They fixed it by replacing one of the cylinders--I just don't recall which one off the top of my head. In my case, my slave was bad...but it wasn't actually leaking.
Now that I think about it, the clutch and brakes are all connected to the same hydraulic system. When I had air in the lines, my brakes were also squishier than normal. Has your brake feel changed at all?
The issue is that air shouldn't randomly appear in the hydraulic system...unless for some reason your reservoir ran dry. If you haven't disconnected a hydraulic line recently, I think you might have another problem that's letting air in. I seem to recall a thread a couple of months back where someone complained of air getting in the hydraulic system. They fixed it by replacing one of the cylinders--I just don't recall which one off the top of my head. In my case, my slave was bad...but it wasn't actually leaking.
Now that I think about it, the clutch and brakes are all connected to the same hydraulic system. When I had air in the lines, my brakes were also squishier than normal. Has your brake feel changed at all?
Reasonably easy to change but involved some contortions...
OP, have a look under your dash with a flashlight to see if your master looks wet/damp/shiny. It shouldn't.
