997 carrera S problem
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 162
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I am still unclear as to what caused this engine failure - other than some references about Liquid Death, a disheartening photo, and some reassurances it will all be made ok by the shop. Instead of some cryptic teasers, it would be great to share the knowledge..
Last edited by gripshifter; Aug 29, 2014 at 07:51 AM.
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From: North Bay
Condolences to the OP; I'd say use of the word "problem" in the thread title is being kind...
I too feel the cryptic nature of certain posts would be a whole lot more informative if jargon was eliminated for us lay folk...
I too feel the cryptic nature of certain posts would be a whole lot more informative if jargon was eliminated for us lay folk...
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 8
From: Greater Philadelphia Area, USA
Let me sum up what've I've heard so far:
1) Yes, these engines are time bombs
2) The oil change interval is too high
3) 0W-40 from Mobile is liquid death -- substitute with 5W-40 from >insert Motul or some other manufacturer<.
.
1) Yes, these engines are time bombs
2) The oil change interval is too high
3) 0W-40 from Mobile is liquid death -- substitute with 5W-40 from >insert Motul or some other manufacturer<.
.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 26,140
Likes: 5,467
From: Chicagoland Area
2) Yes, too high. I change every 5,000 miles.
3) Spelled M-O-B-I-L. It's a fine oil. Are there better? Sure. I use one that I think is better.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,091
Likes: 5
From: Southeast Michigan
Thats not sludge. Its chunks of metal debris from the failure. My guess is this engine has been religiously lubricated with liquid death at the recommended intervals, which are far from adequate.
Just another normal day at the Morgue, here at Flat 6.
This is more than a spun bearing, it may have started as that, but now the collateral damage exceeds the damage caused by the primary failure.
No biggie. We've got it... I wouldn't know what to do if we saw a car actually drive into the facility that could be repaired in one day, or wasn't scattered to bits.. We've had ONE elective build in the last 40 engines here.
Just another normal day at the Morgue, here at Flat 6.
This is more than a spun bearing, it may have started as that, but now the collateral damage exceeds the damage caused by the primary failure.
No biggie. We've got it... I wouldn't know what to do if we saw a car actually drive into the facility that could be repaired in one day, or wasn't scattered to bits.. We've had ONE elective build in the last 40 engines here.
"Just another normal day at the morgue"...
Well...it certainly looks like an autopsy...I think if anything it just goes to show that one will never fully know how these previously owned cars were driven, treated & maintained by the owners.
But that can be any previously owned anything...
I still love my car & will drive it the way it was intended! It's only the most iconic sports car in the world.
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,550
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From: Greater Philadelphia Area, USA
I have my own opinions about these engines and oil and such. Too many variables have not been controlled for to make any scientific conclusions.
It concerns me though. Anecdotal evidence is powerful and can trigger emotions, and even if the % is low, it's not like I am concerned that I might be the 1 of 100 that gets slapped with a $3500 trans problem. It's the 20k dollar-plus problem that makes it different. I do the following to eliminate all variables:
>more frequent oil changes
>Absolutely no hard (or even close) running until engine and oil temp are fully up
>I always run my engine until oil temp exceeds 212 and long enough to burn off water
>I prefer keeping revs over 3k RPM and routinely wind out my engine.
.
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From: Atlanta
When my first engine blew, many asked the same questions and some refused to believe I didn't abuse the engine in some way. I tried countering these accusations (reasonable ones) by describing my meticulous maintenance but to no avail. Even after my 2nd engine blew, showing that I was on my original clutch at 197K miles still did not convince folks that I was not an abuser.
But to your point, these things just blow. My first one made noise for about 2 miles of driving... then kapoot. The second one jerked the car a few times and then froze. Mabey an oil analysis would have predicted, but I suspect that would not be the case as these failures happen on critical parts that are moving around under speed and pressure.
Good assumption, but the failure stories of these engines over the last 15 years or so don't point to good predictive approaches.
I know it is emotional and no one wants to believe their car may be next.... but...... Porsche really blew it 1997 when they were in trouble and kept it going for 10 years. This isn't the first time senior officers risked brand reputation for short-term profits.... think Jaques Nassar at Ford... my Ford friend told me when he took over, he ripped out Q/A and ordered engineers to design for warranty. Seeing what kind of person Wendelin Wiedeking turned out to be kinda makes sense..... hmmmm....
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,024
Likes: 67
From: Austin, TX
OP... condolences re the engine/car and especially re how the p-dealer and Porsche is treating you. Thank you for sharing your experience and please continue to keep us posted re the root cause and resulting resolution. By chance was the car maintained with oil changes every 20K miles as proscribe by Porsche for the 05-07 model 997's. It's interesting that for the '08 MY 997 Porsche changed the interval to 12K miles. Still too long IMO... Anyways it would be great to gain some insight re the root cause of this SNAFU. Please also let us know which p-dealer to avoid. Best of luck.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,091
Likes: 5
From: Southeast Michigan
I understand Tom...the only issue with that premise is if there were no used Porsche demand (buyers looking for previously owned cars) we would all have worthless cars.
And, how many folks bought NEW 996 vehicles & had them die due to engine failure? There was no guarantee there.
It's unfortunate that the OP is in this position...regardless of the problem.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 162
Likes: 28
IMHO, this is very possible. However, once you are in the "failed engine club" like me, you tend to meet and hear about it more. I talked to more than a few folks who had failures and including my indy, who used to be shop foreman at a P dealer, the stories are all similar in that these things just blow with no warning. Both of my failures were pretty darn bang.
When my first engine blew, many asked the same questions and some refused to believe I didn't abuse the engine in some way. I tried countering these accusations (reasonable ones) by describing my meticulous maintenance but to no avail. Even after my 2nd engine blew, showing that I was on my original clutch at 197K miles still did not convince folks that I was not an abuser.
But to your point, these things just blow. My first one made noise for about 2 miles of driving... then kapoot. The second one jerked the car a few times and then froze. Mabey an oil analysis would have predicted, but I suspect that would not be the case as these failures happen on critical parts that are moving around under speed and pressure.
Good assumption, but the failure stories of these engines over the last 15 years or so don't point to good predictive approaches.
I know it is emotional and no one wants to believe their car may be next.... but...... Porsche really blew it 1997 when they were in trouble and kept it going for 10 years. This isn't the first time senior officers risked brand reputation for short-term profits.... think Jaques Nassar at Ford... my Ford friend told me when he took over, he ripped out Q/A and ordered engineers to design for warranty. Seeing what kind of person Wendelin Wiedeking turned out to be kinda makes sense..... hmmmm....
Peace
Bruce in Philly
When my first engine blew, many asked the same questions and some refused to believe I didn't abuse the engine in some way. I tried countering these accusations (reasonable ones) by describing my meticulous maintenance but to no avail. Even after my 2nd engine blew, showing that I was on my original clutch at 197K miles still did not convince folks that I was not an abuser.
But to your point, these things just blow. My first one made noise for about 2 miles of driving... then kapoot. The second one jerked the car a few times and then froze. Mabey an oil analysis would have predicted, but I suspect that would not be the case as these failures happen on critical parts that are moving around under speed and pressure.
Good assumption, but the failure stories of these engines over the last 15 years or so don't point to good predictive approaches.
I know it is emotional and no one wants to believe their car may be next.... but...... Porsche really blew it 1997 when they were in trouble and kept it going for 10 years. This isn't the first time senior officers risked brand reputation for short-term profits.... think Jaques Nassar at Ford... my Ford friend told me when he took over, he ripped out Q/A and ordered engineers to design for warranty. Seeing what kind of person Wendelin Wiedeking turned out to be kinda makes sense..... hmmmm....
Peace
Bruce in Philly