Porsche NA...What else should I have expected?
#1
Rat Balls
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As an update to an earlier thread, when I researched my recent purchase (MY12 997.2) I wanted to make sure it had the ability to stream audio via bluetooth as you would expect from a 2 year old car.
The online 2011-2012 Carrera PCM Manual stated that the PCM had the ability to do this by selecting the "DISC" function then setting the AUX BT selection. This would allow the user to stream audio from their smartphone.
After purchasing the car I discovered, as many have noted here on RL, that this feature is not activated on our cars, although available in the Cayenne and Panamera models.
I sent a letter to customer service for Porsche N.A. I am posting their email response here. As a former 996 owner, I am keenly aware of PNA's head in the sand policy regarding the IMS issue. This is clearly further evidence of the corporate culture at PNA.
Although clearly acknowledging that there is a fault in the PCM installed in my vehicle (and maybe yours too), they are refusing to do anything about it since I did not purchase it new. Of course, my car is still under the original factory warranty and the dealership I purchased from Bentley North Scottsdale is part of a megaplex (Penske North Scottsdale) that of course includes a Porsche Dealership.
Please read from the bottom up for continuity.
_________________________________
Don Thomas
8:26 AM (23 hours ago)
to me
Mr. XXXXXXXXX,
Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, you purchased your vehicle used
from Scottsdale Bentley and as such you must work with your selling
dealer on this matter as Porsche Cars North America declines your request
for a new PCM.
Kind regards,
Don Thomas
Customer Commitment Senior Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, Georgia 30328
phone:770.290.3726
fax 770.290.5556
email
on.Thomas@porsche.us
__________________________________
From: Me
To: Don Thomas <Don.Thomas@porsche.us>
Date: 08/06/2014 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Porsche cars case 5308909
Mr. Thomas:
With all due respect, it is a Porsche issue. I have noted many posts
on the 997 Forum on Rennlist.com and this is a known issue amongst the
many other 997 owners. There are numerous threads about getting
Bluetooth streaming to work on the PCM and the only options are cheap,
aftermarket "workarounds".
Surely you have knowledge that the PCM units installed in the 2012
997.2 simply do not offer this feature as noted in your owner's
manual. In addition, the visual text message feature is not available
either, although also noted.
Regards,
___________________________________
Mr. XXXXXXX,
Because this was not sold at an authorized Porsche dealership , we would
not be able to upgrade your PCM. We advise you to work with your
dealership on any questions you may have about the vehicle features. I
understand this is not the decision you were seeking but it is not a
manufacturer issue.
kind regards,
Don Thomas
Customer Commitment Senior Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, Georgia 30328
phone:770.290.3726
fax 770.290.5556
email
on.Thomas@porsche.us
fax 770.290.5556
email
on.Thomas@porsche.us
_________________________________________
From: Me
To: Don Thomas <Don.Thomas@porsche.us>
Date: 08/05/2014 06:22 PM
Subject: Re: Porsche cars case 5308909
Don:
Thank you for your follow up. I did receive a voice message while I was on
a 2 week vacation and accidentally deleted it when combing through my many
messages!
The VIN is WP0CAxxxxxxxxxxx.
As I may have mentioned in my letter to you, I purchased the vehicle used
(5,700 miles) from Scottsdale Bentley (they are affiliated with Porsche
North Scottsdale as part of the Penske Group), but had done my due
diligence and was certain based on the online owner's manual that the PCM
supported blue tooth streaming.
Thank you again for your follow up!
________________________________
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Don Thomas <Don.Thomas@porsche.us> wrote:
Mr. XXXXXX
I have received your letter directed to us regarding the Bluetooth
option.
Please provide me the VIN to your vehicle and the selling dealer
information.
Kind regards,
Don Thomas
Customer Commitment Senior Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, Georgia 30328
phone:770.290.3726
fax 770.290.5556
email
on.Thomas@porsche.us
The online 2011-2012 Carrera PCM Manual stated that the PCM had the ability to do this by selecting the "DISC" function then setting the AUX BT selection. This would allow the user to stream audio from their smartphone.
After purchasing the car I discovered, as many have noted here on RL, that this feature is not activated on our cars, although available in the Cayenne and Panamera models.
I sent a letter to customer service for Porsche N.A. I am posting their email response here. As a former 996 owner, I am keenly aware of PNA's head in the sand policy regarding the IMS issue. This is clearly further evidence of the corporate culture at PNA.
Although clearly acknowledging that there is a fault in the PCM installed in my vehicle (and maybe yours too), they are refusing to do anything about it since I did not purchase it new. Of course, my car is still under the original factory warranty and the dealership I purchased from Bentley North Scottsdale is part of a megaplex (Penske North Scottsdale) that of course includes a Porsche Dealership.
Please read from the bottom up for continuity.
_________________________________
Don Thomas
8:26 AM (23 hours ago)
to me
Mr. XXXXXXXXX,
Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, you purchased your vehicle used
from Scottsdale Bentley and as such you must work with your selling
dealer on this matter as Porsche Cars North America declines your request
for a new PCM.
Kind regards,
Don Thomas
Customer Commitment Senior Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, Georgia 30328
phone:770.290.3726
fax 770.290.5556
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
__________________________________
From: Me
To: Don Thomas <Don.Thomas@porsche.us>
Date: 08/06/2014 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Porsche cars case 5308909
Mr. Thomas:
With all due respect, it is a Porsche issue. I have noted many posts
on the 997 Forum on Rennlist.com and this is a known issue amongst the
many other 997 owners. There are numerous threads about getting
Bluetooth streaming to work on the PCM and the only options are cheap,
aftermarket "workarounds".
Surely you have knowledge that the PCM units installed in the 2012
997.2 simply do not offer this feature as noted in your owner's
manual. In addition, the visual text message feature is not available
either, although also noted.
Regards,
___________________________________
Mr. XXXXXXX,
Because this was not sold at an authorized Porsche dealership , we would
not be able to upgrade your PCM. We advise you to work with your
dealership on any questions you may have about the vehicle features. I
understand this is not the decision you were seeking but it is not a
manufacturer issue.
kind regards,
Don Thomas
Customer Commitment Senior Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, Georgia 30328
phone:770.290.3726
fax 770.290.5556
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
fax 770.290.5556
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
_________________________________________
From: Me
To: Don Thomas <Don.Thomas@porsche.us>
Date: 08/05/2014 06:22 PM
Subject: Re: Porsche cars case 5308909
Don:
Thank you for your follow up. I did receive a voice message while I was on
a 2 week vacation and accidentally deleted it when combing through my many
messages!
The VIN is WP0CAxxxxxxxxxxx.
As I may have mentioned in my letter to you, I purchased the vehicle used
(5,700 miles) from Scottsdale Bentley (they are affiliated with Porsche
North Scottsdale as part of the Penske Group), but had done my due
diligence and was certain based on the online owner's manual that the PCM
supported blue tooth streaming.
Thank you again for your follow up!
________________________________
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Don Thomas <Don.Thomas@porsche.us> wrote:
Mr. XXXXXX
I have received your letter directed to us regarding the Bluetooth
option.
Please provide me the VIN to your vehicle and the selling dealer
information.
Kind regards,
Don Thomas
Customer Commitment Senior Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, Georgia 30328
phone:770.290.3726
fax 770.290.5556
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#3
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PCNA is hiding behind where you purchased the car (weird, since it is under warranty), but even if you had purchased it new from a Porsche dealer there was no way they were going to address this for you. My understanding is that you need PCM 3.1 to have A2DP enabled , and the 997 only ever had PCM 3.0.
I have a 2009 C2S with PCM 3.0, and it came with a generic PCM3 manual that is not specific to my car, and in fact does not even state which Porsche models use this PCM. It is mostly correct, but does describe features that were optional (like Voice Control) without making it clear that the feature is not present on all cars. Porsche seems to do this in the owners manual as well, with features such as the passenger seat airbag off switch.
Out of curiosity, did the PCM manual you found online specifically state it was for the 2011-2012 Carrera, or was it generic like mine? How about the hard copy in your glove box - is it the same?
Good luck, but you're beating a dead horse.
I have a 2009 C2S with PCM 3.0, and it came with a generic PCM3 manual that is not specific to my car, and in fact does not even state which Porsche models use this PCM. It is mostly correct, but does describe features that were optional (like Voice Control) without making it clear that the feature is not present on all cars. Porsche seems to do this in the owners manual as well, with features such as the passenger seat airbag off switch.
Out of curiosity, did the PCM manual you found online specifically state it was for the 2011-2012 Carrera, or was it generic like mine? How about the hard copy in your glove box - is it the same?
Good luck, but you're beating a dead horse.
#4
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Technically you could bring it in for warranty with the claim that the BT doesn't work per the owner's manual. At that point, it'll most certainly be a Porsche NA problem (and at a Porsche dealer).
#6
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PCNA is hiding behind where you purchased the car (weird, since it is under warranty), but even if you had purchased it new from a Porsche dealer there was no way they were going to address this for you. My understanding is that you need PCM 3.1 to have A2DP enabled , and the 997 only ever had PCM 3.0.
I have a 2009 C2S with PCM 3.0, and it came with a generic PCM3 manual that is not specific to my car, and in fact does not even state which Porsche models use this PCM. It is mostly correct, but does describe features that were optional (like Voice Control) without making it clear that the feature is not present on all cars. Porsche seems to do this in the owners manual as well, with features such as the passenger seat airbag off switch.
Out of curiosity, did the PCM manual you found online specifically state it was for the 2011-2012 Carrera, or was it generic like mine? How about the hard copy in your glove box - is it the same?
Good luck, but you're beating a dead horse.
I have a 2009 C2S with PCM 3.0, and it came with a generic PCM3 manual that is not specific to my car, and in fact does not even state which Porsche models use this PCM. It is mostly correct, but does describe features that were optional (like Voice Control) without making it clear that the feature is not present on all cars. Porsche seems to do this in the owners manual as well, with features such as the passenger seat airbag off switch.
Out of curiosity, did the PCM manual you found online specifically state it was for the 2011-2012 Carrera, or was it generic like mine? How about the hard copy in your glove box - is it the same?
Good luck, but you're beating a dead horse.
Kcheves, I understand your reasoning here, but their response to my email leads me to believe that if I had purchased the car new, then PCNA may have done something about this. The car is still under original warranty and I fail to see how their policy differs just because I am the second owner.
To be clear, if a warranted item were to fail tomorrow and PCNA declined to make the repair because I am the the second owner, well, they would have just created a litigious event.
They may have created a loophole, but if the manual clearly states the car has this function (and is not an optional feature like PSE, ventilated seats, etc) and the manual is specific to my model and year, then any reasonable person should expect this function to exist.
And for a minute, I thought Mr. Thomas thought so too...
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.....but their response to my email leads me to believe that if I had purchased the car new, then PCNA may have done something about this. The car is still under original warranty and I fail to see how their policy differs just because I am the second owner.
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#8
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Here is my reply sent 2 minutes ago...
________________________________
Mr. Thomas:
Please explain to me why being the second owner of the vehicle or where the vehicle was purchased is relevant. The vehicle is still under warranty and according to your company's owner's manual, the PCM is not performing as noted in that manual. The manual is specific to my vehicle model and year and the function in question is not noted as an "option".
Furthermore, can I expect any additional warranted items that will be similarly declined for repair?
I await your response.
________________________________
Mr. Thomas:
Please explain to me why being the second owner of the vehicle or where the vehicle was purchased is relevant. The vehicle is still under warranty and according to your company's owner's manual, the PCM is not performing as noted in that manual. The manual is specific to my vehicle model and year and the function in question is not noted as an "option".
Furthermore, can I expect any additional warranted items that will be similarly declined for repair?
I await your response.
#9
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I think Mr. Thomas has the official title of "Chief Manager of Obfuscation."
See if you can move up the ladder higher, or find someone else to deal with.
Also, Marco's suggestion is good. Easier to be pushier when you are standing right in front of them.
See if you can move up the ladder higher, or find someone else to deal with.
Also, Marco's suggestion is good. Easier to be pushier when you are standing right in front of them.
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And the manual says I should be able to do it.
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But right is right...and PCNA's lack of responsibility for the IMS issue has always left a bad taste in my mouth.
As I understand it, they put the same PCM in other models. The current unit already has Bluetooth capability. This could just be a simple firmware issue and if it does get resolved at the PCNA level it could be good for everyone.
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Hmmm, I bought my 2012 4s cab new from a Porsche dealership, I don't think the "streaming "works on my car also. I just "hard dock" my phone. Although , I do have the Bluetooth option on my car.
The problem I have with streaming music is, the music seems to be a bit muffled(not as loud). I don't like that, and I think that's why I never pursued streaming in my 911.
The problem I have with streaming music is, the music seems to be a bit muffled(not as loud). I don't like that, and I think that's why I never pursued streaming in my 911.