hankcah

Found a nice 911 and made an offer. Mine was 13% lower than the asking price. Dealer came back with only 6%. But won't give much info on the car...

I asked simple questions like :
Was the IMS serviced?
When was the clutch last serviced?
Maintenance on spark plugs/coils?
How much tread is left on the tires?
Any info you can tell me about maintenance?

I feel like I'm not asking much. Of course I'd get a PPI but if they are selling cars, why don't they do a little bit of ground work? Or throw me the maintenance history?

I feel my offer would be more flexible if the IMS and clutch were documented when they were serviced. Am I wrong to think these are standard question for any vehicle?

Should I bother negotiating at all with this dealer? I understand I may not have much ground to stand on pending I don't have a PPI yet. Would a $500 PPI tell me when the clutch was last replaced? IMS? Spark plugs? Don't the dealer records have this, able to view this?

What do you recommend? Or is trying to get any info out of the salesman a lost cause?

Thanks

9114Scab

You need to talk to the Gen manager. Not the sales reps, matter of fact, the sale reps, probably don't know what the heck your talking about.

I always talk to the gen manager first. whether I am buying a Jeep Wrangler or a Porsche. Then he may delegate you to a sales rep, but by that point you will know if you are in the correct price range and a deal can be made.

Sales reps are just kids. IMHO

hankcah

Never thought about going to the manager directly. But then again, it makes sense as if you are there in person....the kids go talk to the big guns in order to get the most out of you.

Thanks for the tip.

Domer911

Why would you make ANY offer on ANYTHING with so many unanswered questions?

seriously.

In my opinion that alone robs you of some credibility. Dealer probably thinks you're a tire kicker.

Besides... in the course of obtaining answers to your questions, you're bound to find out things that may mitigate the price being asked for the car. Either way, making an offer and THEN asking questions about the vehicle is kinda silly.

hankcah

True, but at the same time I feel making an offer gets the ball rolling.

In the psychological approach: If I were a dealer, and had questions that I didn't have the answers to... FIRST I'd feel stupid. I'd come down in price or at least do the research. If they want to take the lazy way out, they'd offer less in order to just make a sale. In an "I'd give up attempt" just to get some business. Because if they are selling a car/product...shouldn't they know a tidbit of the models prone issues or simple inquiries?

In a way, I'm justifying my offer. He can't back up his offer if he has no data. but push come to shove, when I do get a PPI, it just puts everything on paper once again, justifying my offer.

blackbull

OP....Domer911 is 100% correct. You must negotiate from strength not weakness. Having ALL of the facts beforehand is critical to making an informed offer. Do your research on several vehicles and determine the most desirable car. Approach & make an offer. Once the offer has been made make it clear you have no problem walking away from unacceptable price & terms. Now the ball in in their court as the saying goes. You stare them down without blinking.

Cuda911

For a used car, why would the dealer necessarily have any of that info? They take the car in on a trade, or buy it at an auction, or take it on consignment, etc. If they have maint. info, great. But I sure wouldn't expect it from any used car dealer.

Most new car salesmen know less about the cars on their lot than I do, after I have done even cursory homework. I don't expect a used car guy to provide me anything other than a price.

If you decide you want the car, do this: Raise your offer a bit, and tell the dealer that you will absolutely commit to buying the car at that price assuming it passes a PPI. If he agrees, get the PPI done. Then, you may be able to negotiate some add'l discount if the PPI shows up some issues.

PJorgen

Not sure where you're located, but location has a lot to do with it. I live in the SF Bay Area and now that the economy is recovering, there are a lot of buyers with more money than sense who will walk into the dealership and pay asking or close to it, without any questions.

If the dealer you're talking to is used to that type of buyer, he probably won't even bother to try to answer your questions. I'd be up front about it and ask him if he's willing to negotiate after you've had a full PPI done on the car. Don't be surprised if you end up walking out the door.

MY997

Hey guys I am in the process of possibly buying a 2009 911 Carrera 4S (41K miles)...no price has been dsicussed yet but what is this PPI you are talking about...sorry I have a lot to learn about the Porsche world...thanks.

PJorgen

PPI = pre-purchase inspection. Done by an independent mechanic who knows Porsche's. Expect to pay at least $250 for a good one (at least here in California) and get a detailed written report. Use the report as a starting point for negotiating or a reason to walk away from the car.

Falcondrivr

I love the idea of "negotiation tactics." The average car buyer goes in to negotiate a car deal maybe once every couple of years. Car dealers do it hundreds of times per month. There is no way to win or beat a car dealer. They will not sell a car for less than they want. They don't have to. Someone WILL show up and buy it.
If you want the best price, find the highest level of decision maker in the building. Establish with them that you are there to buy the car right now if the price is right, and that you don't want to waste their, or your time, if it's too high. Ask them to show you the computer screen with what they have in the car. Then ask them, with your checkbook out, what's the minimum profit they can take for the car. If it is acceptable, then buy it. If not thank them and walk away.
Dealers would rather sit on a car for months than have to explain why they took less than the minimum for a car.

Little Green

To answer one of your questions no an indi would not be able to tell if the clutch or IMS has been replaced

Gonzo911

My strategy is to make an offer, get their response...then walk away. Wait for the call a few hours later. Come back in. Listen to their offer...then walk away. Wait for the call a few hours later. Listen to their offer...then walk away.

When they stop calling you have found their bottom price.

9114Scab

lol, I don't know about all that,^^^^^^

You don't have to go through all that, just ask the Gen manager what it would take to get this deal done, and yes, you have to get a ppi completed before you take delivery.

The dealerships in Illinois absolutely do not want to keep any car on the lot for 3 months, you're in the driver's seat, the dealerships are not. Hate to be the bearer of bad news (for the dealerships) but finding a used 997 is not that difficult. There is a large supply.

Join a Porsche Club, then ask the guys at the club if they know anybody... Network with other Porsche members. <------ That's you're best bet. Then you will not feel as "green" when you make an offer for a car.

Buddhamonk

My negotiation technique is even simpler

- Test drive the car
- Get ppi
- Send an email (to the general manager) with my only offer. I usually get a 2 to 3 emails back from the dealer telling me they can't go that low until they accept the offer or stop emailing.

(that was I don't have to spend anytime on the phone or go back to the dealership).