Hella-Buggin'

Ok, so I'm getting faster and that means I need to brake earlier, which defeats the point, or brake more aggressively. Up until now I'm on a totally stock set up so I've decided to step up to some brake pads with more bite.

I've heard good things about the endless in terms of being a nice track upgrade as well as remaining street able. This would mean I don't have to change pads before and after each event which would be nice.
But they are pricey.

Or Pagid, which ones? Rs19, RS29, front back?

For reference, here's a list of some of my times so you can get a picture of my level. I'm either in front if the slow pack (yellow) or towards the back of the lass slow pack (green) ;-)


Buttonwillow 2:21
thunderhill 2:19
Laguna 1:55

Canyonrs4

I am running Performance Friction 08 compound pads, they are awesome, provide a nice initial bite and have a lot more stopping power than the stock pads. They seem to be rotor friendly so far, I have been running them on the street too, a bit of a squeal from time to time with light pressure but not too bad.

mdrums

I tend to prefer Padigd RS19 yellow front and RS14 black rear. This works very very well to help the car brake flatter and not nose dive. 997 Carrera cars have a heavy front brake bias compared to the GT3 version. Also the Pagids seems to be slightly easier on rotors.
PFC08 are great pads and have more bite however braking late...very late is not fastest and upsets the balance of the car into the turn....so I prefer Pagid yellow/black.

Hella-Buggin'

Ok, next question. I've never changed pads myself. I've looked at a few threads and seen a few videos and feel confident that I could easily do it.
Do I have to bleed the brakes when swapping pads?

Mark

tgavem

Most likely as new pads will displace fluids. Since you are going to more aggressive pads, greater speed, etc you will increase temperature. Therefore, a break flush with new high temperature performance fluid, SRF Castrol or Superblue, is something you should consider.

But never, ever, disconnect the break lines.

Open hood and look and reservoir level. If below max, change pads one side, check fluid level again, estimated how much fluid level changed and see if you can do other side.
If level is getting to max, start bleeding from passenger rear, to driver rear, then front passenger, and lately from driver. Bleed inside and outside of each rotor.
That being said, if you have done a few track sessions already, a break bleed is required as you may have bubbles/air due to high heat in the system. Brake fluid absorb water in the air, and if fluid is old, you likely have some air in the system now from the water in the fluid boiling and you should bleed.

It is recommended that you bleed the break system every 4-6 track weekends for DE, and a full bleed/ replacement, every 10-12 weekends of once per year.

Recommendation: enlist the help of a fellow DE / rennlist'er or somebody who has done this before for your first time.

mattyf

Do you keep the Pagids on for street, or switch back to stock between track days?

utkinpol

no!
It is important. Bleed brakes before each DE event. If you do many events per season, more than 5 then it is good idea to do full flush before your season opener.
Why it is important to flush after ( or before DE) - as brake fluid gets hot or close to boiling point it gets air bubbles in calipers area, it is dangerous as at next event you get more air. More air = no breaks at some point.

Overall - look for cracks on rotors, warped rotors, learn to feel how hard brake pedal should be, pay attention to brakes as they are your life guarantee.

For running track pads on street - some are lucky not to hear it but in most cars these pads screech so loud it is not really possible to tolerate. Plus, to speak of pagids, they do not have really good bite when cold. You may want to use some hybrid pads like semi- track hawk or ebc yellow for street. Real track pads need to come up t working temperature to show good bite, it is not possible on street.

Hella-Buggin'

Well, my current fluid is high temp GS610 and I'll just be about a year on it before my next DE. I'll swap that out and going forward bleed after each session. I'm not currently running up to the limit of the stock pads but I'd rather learn into something better than find out that I crossed the line.

Hatzenbach

A few more answers:
Yes I switch between track pads and street pads, all the good track pads squeal like hell and it's just too annoying to drive them on street
Changing the pads is super-easy (on an S, I believe at least the 997.2 base models have different calipers where it's a much bigger pain to change pads)
The biggest pain when changing pads is getting the break wear sensors out. I have permanently zip-tied them out of the way. Now changing pads on the track takes me maybe 5 min / wheel. You just need to eyeball your street tracks from time to time to check for wear.
Don't forgot to bed the track pads properly after you installed them (every time you install them). A typical bedding procedure goes like this: find a nice empty track of backload, bring the car up to 60 mph and repeat 10 times: slow the car down to 40 mph, bring it back to 60 mph, wait 10 seconds, repeat. Use medium pressure, don't break to hard and definitely don't have the ABS engage. Afterwards drive for 5 min (w/o breaking) to let the rotors and pads cool down.
I read a lot that you're supposed to bleed after (or before) every event, but honestly if you don't boil your fluid how would you get air into the system?

And last not least: what's the biggest difference between street/track hybrid pads and dedicated track pads: Much more confidence when slowing the car down from 120 mph to 40 mph (breaking for turn 2 at Laguna-Seca) over and over again.

stronbl

Congrats on the progress!! DIY for changing brake pads on 997 S as noted above is dead easy once you've done it a time or two. I always do a quick bleed (as compared to a full system bleed) after a pad change.

Lots of good info so far and I'm sure more will come as others contribute to the thread. The "what's the best track brake pad" is sort entering into the manual vs. PDK territory - there are many views. I'd say you will eventually need to do several experiments with different pads and determine just what works best with your driving/braking style. Many of us have done this and sometimes we agree and sometimes we differ so what works for me may not work so well for you. But the views here are an important data point as you will eventually find a brake pad that does what you want.

My preference is to have a dual street and track pad rather than swapping pads. I don't like the squeal on the streets from track pads and I don't usually gets my street brakes up to a temperature that enables the max grip from track pads. So I'm testing dual mode pads right now.

Pads I've tested and some very quick thoughts (again based on my driving/braking style).

Porsche OEM - adequate but not inspiring. A good brake fluid (Motul, SRF, StopTech) helps tremendously. I use Motul RBF 600 and I am happy with it.
Pagid RS 29 & 14 - excellent on track; I was hoping the 29 with stronger bite than 19 (as per Pagid website) would make a good street/track combo, but I was only lukewarm with them. Some squeal at all stopping pressures - light, med, hard.
Cool Carbon - tried ceramics didn't like them as dual purpose but on the track once at temp, they were very good. Similar to Pagid.
Cool Carbon - metallic. These are what I am testing / running now. I'm on my second set. Dual purpose is good, minimal squeal. In fact my second set I added a bit more anti-squeal grease and that seems to have helped. Still needs a little heat on the street to get a strong bite. On the track they are excellent, better than the ceramics, but they need to heat up for max friction. Rotor friendly. I have some minor heat stress cracks, not sure which pads caused them, but these latest CC have not expanded the cracks much. Still less than the 5mm Porsche uses as replacement guideline.
I will test Endless and PFC at some point this season or next. I have not used them but like the comments from those that do use them.

Lastly I cannot echo strongly enough Hatzenbach's bedding comments ^^^. To get the performance you desire, bedding must be done each time the pads are installed. This is a real key IMO (and don't bed with your brake sensors connected unless you want to replace them immediately - I've learned this lesson several times ... slow learner!).

mdrums

Changing pads is simple...but getting the anti squeal back plate off the stock pads in order to remove pads can be some work. I just slide a old long knife down and pry it apart and pry the pad out with a long thick screwdriver. I never use this anti squeal backing plate again and as I swap pads from stock to track pads it only takes me an extra 30 seconds per wheel. My oem stock pads never squeal either. I also don't reinstall the brake sensors. I'm looking at my pads and rotors enough to notice pad wear. I took some old brake sensors and clipped the wore at the plug and soldered it together and plugged the plug back in and never touched them again.

No you do not have to bleed brake because you changed pads. But I do a quick bleed after or before every track event anyway. With the motive bleeder tool it's easy.

mdrums

I swap back to street pads for the street. It's quick and simple to not do this plus race pads are not designed for street use and do not work well when cold.

Canyonrs4

mdrums, I left this plate in on my last pad change and I see you noted that you have removed it and do not use it at all, is there any downside to not using the anti-squeal plate? I too have not reinstalled the brake sensors and simply zip tied them out of the way.

Jake951

Another vote for the PFC08. I run them on both track and street. They are quiet on the street...only an occasional squeak under light braking. I don't bother to constantly swap track and street pads.

Cloudspin

^^ +1 on PFC08 and SRF. I've used SRF in my track cars for over 10 years in hot, humid South Florida, typically 24+ track days a year. It is expensive but holds up extremely well. I flush it once a year whether it needs it or not and bleed it when I change rotors but that is it. Reduced labor offsets higher material first cost IMHO.

I do sometimes switch from 08s to OEM pads when there is more than two weeks between events, primarily to reduce the wear on the 08s. It is not my DD. Good luck whichever route you choose!