Oil usage is getting less and less....
10-31-2015, 01:13 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Since a little oil usage is inherent based on the design of the engine, I'm glad to lose about 1/2 litre +/- in about 3500 miles since I changed my oil (Mobile 5w-40 for my warm weather, weekend runner).
Absolutely no oil loss would, quite frankly, concern me. It would mean that I am probably burning oil -- not time to panic because it's exceedingly unlikely that isn't happening, but it would point to unspent fuel and water building up in my oil.
Where does this happen at extremes that make even the densest of individuals take notice? In boat engines. Some just don't run long enough in a hot state, even after an hour, that so much water accumulates that the engine is declared to be ''making oil''. No, it's diluting the oil with water AND unburned fuel, because combustion is optimal in a fully warm/hot engine.
So, in boats, it happens at an extreme. It's so bad that it's undeniable.
In cars, it's more nuanced, but real.
We all know these engines need to run up to operating temp and stay there for a while (no science, but 15 minutes ain't a while, and it takes 15-20 to get hot... so we're 30 mins in already). With 9 quarts of oil (PLUS OR MINUS - FINE), and a cooling system that will take some time to get the engine and the oil hot...
...well, don't color me shocked by claims that no oil is being burned. Sure, some oil IS BEING BURNED... but it's being replaced by fuel/water... and then THAT isn't getting hot enough to steam off.
And you have diluted oil.
Geeze, I can't imagine why bore scoring affects cold weather cars disproportionately.
.
.
Absolutely no oil loss would, quite frankly, concern me. It would mean that I am probably burning oil -- not time to panic because it's exceedingly unlikely that isn't happening, but it would point to unspent fuel and water building up in my oil.
Where does this happen at extremes that make even the densest of individuals take notice? In boat engines. Some just don't run long enough in a hot state, even after an hour, that so much water accumulates that the engine is declared to be ''making oil''. No, it's diluting the oil with water AND unburned fuel, because combustion is optimal in a fully warm/hot engine.
So, in boats, it happens at an extreme. It's so bad that it's undeniable.
In cars, it's more nuanced, but real.
We all know these engines need to run up to operating temp and stay there for a while (no science, but 15 minutes ain't a while, and it takes 15-20 to get hot... so we're 30 mins in already). With 9 quarts of oil (PLUS OR MINUS - FINE), and a cooling system that will take some time to get the engine and the oil hot...
...well, don't color me shocked by claims that no oil is being burned. Sure, some oil IS BEING BURNED... but it's being replaced by fuel/water... and then THAT isn't getting hot enough to steam off.
And you have diluted oil.
Geeze, I can't imagine why bore scoring affects cold weather cars disproportionately.
.
.
10-31-2015, 02:32 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Since a little oil usage is inherent based on the design of the engine, I'm glad to lose about 1/2 litre +/- in about 3500 miles since I changed my oil (Mobile 5w-40 for my warm weather, weekend runner).
Absolutely no oil loss would, quite frankly, concern me. It would mean that I am probably burning oil -- not time to panic because it's exceedingly unlikely that isn't happening, but it would point to unspent fuel and water building up in my oil.
Where does this happen at extremes that make even the densest of individuals take notice? In boat engines. Some just don't run long enough in a hot state, even after an hour, that so much water accumulates that the engine is declared to be ''making oil''. No, it's diluting the oil with water AND unburned fuel, because combustion is optimal in a fully warm/hot engine.
So, in boats, it happens at an extreme. It's so bad that it's undeniable.
In cars, it's more nuanced, but real.
We all know these engines need to run up to operating temp and stay there for a while (no science, but 15 minutes ain't a while, and it takes 15-20 to get hot... so we're 30 mins in already). With 9 quarts of oil (PLUS OR MINUS - FINE), and a cooling system that will take some time to get the engine and the oil hot...
...well, don't color me shocked by claims that no oil is being burned. Sure, some oil IS BEING BURNED... but it's being replaced by fuel/water... and then THAT isn't getting hot enough to steam off.
And you have diluted oil.
Geeze, I can't imagine why bore scoring affects cold weather cars disproportionately.
.
.
Absolutely no oil loss would, quite frankly, concern me. It would mean that I am probably burning oil -- not time to panic because it's exceedingly unlikely that isn't happening, but it would point to unspent fuel and water building up in my oil.
Where does this happen at extremes that make even the densest of individuals take notice? In boat engines. Some just don't run long enough in a hot state, even after an hour, that so much water accumulates that the engine is declared to be ''making oil''. No, it's diluting the oil with water AND unburned fuel, because combustion is optimal in a fully warm/hot engine.
So, in boats, it happens at an extreme. It's so bad that it's undeniable.
In cars, it's more nuanced, but real.
We all know these engines need to run up to operating temp and stay there for a while (no science, but 15 minutes ain't a while, and it takes 15-20 to get hot... so we're 30 mins in already). With 9 quarts of oil (PLUS OR MINUS - FINE), and a cooling system that will take some time to get the engine and the oil hot...
...well, don't color me shocked by claims that no oil is being burned. Sure, some oil IS BEING BURNED... but it's being replaced by fuel/water... and then THAT isn't getting hot enough to steam off.
And you have diluted oil.
Geeze, I can't imagine why bore scoring affects cold weather cars disproportionately.
.
.
10-31-2015, 03:30 PM
#18
So, to recap, oil use is designed into these engines. But, they can go out of design, stop using oil, and actually start creating it. This can happen at any time, but seems to be most likely during "break-in", which takes 20,000 to 100,000 miles. Assuming lots of full throttle pressure to seat piston rings- except above 4,000 RPM's, that's too much. Unless of course the engine is used to run a boat, in which case its design will create water (and gas) instead of oil. This can all be diagnosed with UOA, which proves engine parts do wear out.
Got it!
Meanwhile, this thread started so long ago Bruce's car is now well into oil production. And he's not the only one! At last we know why oil prices are falling: Its not the Saudi's,
its the Porsches!
When it comes to oil, you can't win for losing!
Got it!
Meanwhile, this thread started so long ago Bruce's car is now well into oil production. And he's not the only one! At last we know why oil prices are falling: Its not the Saudi's,
its the Porsches! When it comes to oil, you can't win for losing!
10-31-2015, 06:24 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
You don't understand internal combustion engines; you don't understand 997 series engines, and eye rolls are smarmy comments are useless.
Yes... DUH.... DUH......Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!!!!!!!!!
UOA is in order.
These engines don't break in for how long? REALLY? THAT... yes, THAT is the most preposterous thing I heave heard on any automotive message board. EVER.
You burn a little oil, and northwards of 50k miles and you perceive it doesn't burn anymore oil = making oil, as they saying goes. From... water and fuel being added to the oil.
OCCAM'S RAZOR. AGAIN. I don't care what it COULD be; pursue what it likely is.
.
Yes... DUH.... DUH......Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!!!!!!!!!
UOA is in order.
These engines don't break in for how long? REALLY? THAT... yes, THAT is the most preposterous thing I heave heard on any automotive message board. EVER.
You burn a little oil, and northwards of 50k miles and you perceive it doesn't burn anymore oil = making oil, as they saying goes. From... water and fuel being added to the oil.
OCCAM'S RAZOR. AGAIN. I don't care what it COULD be; pursue what it likely is.
.
10-31-2015, 08:49 PM
#20
You don't understand internal combustion engines; you don't understand 997 series engines, and eye rolls are smarmy comments are useless.
Yes... DUH.... DUH......Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!!!!!!!!!
UOA is in order.
These engines don't break in for how long? REALLY? THAT... yes, THAT is the most preposterous thing I heave heard on any automotive message board. EVER.
You burn a little oil, and northwards of 50k miles and you perceive it doesn't burn anymore oil = making oil, as they saying goes. From... water and fuel being added to the oil.
OCCAM'S RAZOR. AGAIN. I don't care what it COULD be; pursue what it likely is.
.
Yes... DUH.... DUH......Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!!!!!!!!!
UOA is in order.
These engines don't break in for how long? REALLY? THAT... yes, THAT is the most preposterous thing I heave heard on any automotive message board. EVER.
You burn a little oil, and northwards of 50k miles and you perceive it doesn't burn anymore oil = making oil, as they saying goes. From... water and fuel being added to the oil.
OCCAM'S RAZOR. AGAIN. I don't care what it COULD be; pursue what it likely is.
.
10-31-2015, 09:02 PM
#21
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
First off, my car is now producing Mobil 1 at a rate that is alarming. It is not water. I drive my car at high temps daily and watch that oil temp move up and down with engine demand.
This is clearly not good. As an oil producer, I have to file reams of paperwork with the Federal Government. I have neighbors calling me the face of corporate greed and the cause of wars for profit. This morning, I had some Green, Occupy Wall Street group... all the guys wear the knitted caps in the heat ... yes sitting on my front lawn and were pitching tents! I guess there is some good to this, I received an invitation to a free dinner in Washington from a nice Saudi Prince who wants to talk about "cooperation".
I have had it! What am I going to do about it? I now take a siphon to the car every morning and drain the oil off and run it into a ditch behind my house that meanders down to the Schuylkill river.
Phoooey on a car that continues to break in.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
This is clearly not good. As an oil producer, I have to file reams of paperwork with the Federal Government. I have neighbors calling me the face of corporate greed and the cause of wars for profit. This morning, I had some Green, Occupy Wall Street group... all the guys wear the knitted caps in the heat ... yes sitting on my front lawn and were pitching tents! I guess there is some good to this, I received an invitation to a free dinner in Washington from a nice Saudi Prince who wants to talk about "cooperation".
I have had it! What am I going to do about it? I now take a siphon to the car every morning and drain the oil off and run it into a ditch behind my house that meanders down to the Schuylkill river.
Phoooey on a car that continues to break in.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
11-01-2015, 08:31 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
That's an eye roll at basically everything that was offered by everyone in the thread.
Bruce shows up; he seeks input. Input is received. You eye roll all of it.
.