997 valuation - soliciting opinions
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997 valuation - soliciting opinions
I nearly pulled the trigger on a C4S that's at a dealer in Cincy. As usual, this community has been extremely helpful in offering advice, PM's of support including offers to evaluate the car for me.
You guys are all awesome.
Now - the dealer (not a Porsche dealer) is acting like a complete a$$ in negotiation and I'm gonna take a knee. Plenty of 997 owners are trading up and I am a patient buyer. Lots of fish in the sea, with more to come.
To my eye, the 997 is the most elegant and beautiful Carrera period. (Don't tell my '87 coupe.). I've wanted one ever since I saw the first one in Excellence several years ago.
You guys helped me purchase my '87 nearly at the bottom of the depreciation curve. My question is where do you think we are with 997 values? Bottom? A little ways left to go?
It's not all about an investment for me, rather part of the equation. My kids love the '87, I get a ton of enjoyment from driving it and I think I'd actually track a 997 occasionally.
Penny for your thoughts.
You guys are all awesome.
Now - the dealer (not a Porsche dealer) is acting like a complete a$$ in negotiation and I'm gonna take a knee. Plenty of 997 owners are trading up and I am a patient buyer. Lots of fish in the sea, with more to come.
To my eye, the 997 is the most elegant and beautiful Carrera period. (Don't tell my '87 coupe.). I've wanted one ever since I saw the first one in Excellence several years ago.
You guys helped me purchase my '87 nearly at the bottom of the depreciation curve. My question is where do you think we are with 997 values? Bottom? A little ways left to go?
It's not all about an investment for me, rather part of the equation. My kids love the '87, I get a ton of enjoyment from driving it and I think I'd actually track a 997 occasionally.
Penny for your thoughts.
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It took 20 years and 3 generations (964, 993, 996) for the value of your '87 to start rising. 993's didn't start rising until late in the 997/early 991, 15 years and three generations (996, 997, 991) after the last one rolled off in 1998.
So I think we have yet to see the 997 bottom out, as you are only three model years out from the last one rolling off the line.
Just my $0.02.
So I think we have yet to see the 997 bottom out, as you are only three model years out from the last one rolling off the line.
Just my $0.02.
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While the 996 has bottomed out in the high teen's, I don't think 997 will go much lower than low 40's for an accident free car. While most early year 997's still sell in the 50's for a low mileage car, we're not too far off (at least that's my opinion). I certainly don't see the 997 bottoming out the same level as a 996
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Why not consider a turbo for a little more?
if you want an investment 997, what about the gt2 rs, or any of the RS's. personally i think the gt2 is a great value with lots of investment potential.
if you want to buy at car at the bottom of the market, i think a 996gt2 or untracked 996gt3 are the bottom right now. the 996 turbos are wonderful powerful, reliable, and trackable beasts.
@fbfisher, 20 years from now, we'll look back and ask ourselves why we didn't consider the china or south american market. there a lots of guys overseas who want porsches too. with our dollar essentially worthless, it's worth speculating what these guys will pay for. not all of them will or want ferrari's. i can imagine some chinese guy in shanghai wanting to buy a 997 turbo to impress his girlfriend.
if you want an investment 997, what about the gt2 rs, or any of the RS's. personally i think the gt2 is a great value with lots of investment potential.
if you want to buy at car at the bottom of the market, i think a 996gt2 or untracked 996gt3 are the bottom right now. the 996 turbos are wonderful powerful, reliable, and trackable beasts.
@fbfisher, 20 years from now, we'll look back and ask ourselves why we didn't consider the china or south american market. there a lots of guys overseas who want porsches too. with our dollar essentially worthless, it's worth speculating what these guys will pay for. not all of them will or want ferrari's. i can imagine some chinese guy in shanghai wanting to buy a 997 turbo to impress his girlfriend.
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Interesting thoughts from all three of you. I really am set on a 997, probably wouldn't go to a 996 turbo despite the fact is an outrageously fantastic car. So is the 996 GT3. I would also agree that those have bottomed out, I would just worry that I wouldn't enjoy it as much. The 997's just make me go weak in the knees.
In terms of forward collectibility, do you think there is a clear winner between the base Carrera, the C2S, or the C4S? All things equal in terms of the mileage of the car, how many owners, etc. there seems to be a $10,000 spread between the base Carrera and the C4S at this point in time.
In terms of forward collectibility, do you think there is a clear winner between the base Carrera, the C2S, or the C4S? All things equal in terms of the mileage of the car, how many owners, etc. there seems to be a $10,000 spread between the base Carrera and the C4S at this point in time.
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I don't think either of the tree you mentioned would be a collector's car.
in the 997 stable, I would say the speedster, sports classic, GT3, GT3RS, GTS, TTS and maybe the "black edition" would be collector's items.
There are just too many C2, C2S and C4's out there to be a collectible car someday...
in the 997 stable, I would say the speedster, sports classic, GT3, GT3RS, GTS, TTS and maybe the "black edition" would be collector's items.
There are just too many C2, C2S and C4's out there to be a collectible car someday...
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I apologize, I misspoke. I used the term "collectibility" when what I really meant to say was which car is in a better position to increase in value.
My 87 Carrera is just a base car, but it has nearly doubled in value since I purchased it, for example.
I can't afford any of the 997's that are true collectibles........
Funny tangent, after I posted this topic on a flight today, I return home to find this month's Panorama waiting for me. Theres a two page article (editors note) talking about the irrationality of the current air cooled market valuation relative to the water cooled.
Back to our thread.......
So let me resubmit my question properly - does this group think there's any difference between the base, the C2S, or the C4S in forward value. We're talking 20 years from now, because after I purchase something like this, I'm going to hold onto it for a long time.
My 87 Carrera is just a base car, but it has nearly doubled in value since I purchased it, for example.
I can't afford any of the 997's that are true collectibles........
Funny tangent, after I posted this topic on a flight today, I return home to find this month's Panorama waiting for me. Theres a two page article (editors note) talking about the irrationality of the current air cooled market valuation relative to the water cooled.
Back to our thread.......
So let me resubmit my question properly - does this group think there's any difference between the base, the C2S, or the C4S in forward value. We're talking 20 years from now, because after I purchase something like this, I'm going to hold onto it for a long time.
Last edited by txhoosier; May 15, 2014 at 07:12 PM.
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C2S will be worth more (not saying how much more) because more people want 2WD than 4WD. plus, as an "old" car, the maintenance and repair cost potential is higher on 4WD.
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traditionally c2s may go up more because of the bigger engine, wider rear, and less weight. but imo, 997 will not increase in value unless you get from a private party at trade-in price then sell it immediately.
also, you'd need to service the c2s religiously, drive it sparingly, keep it at less than 20k miles, keep all original parts, accident and respray free, and loaded to the gills with unknown rare and desirable options for your plan to pan out.
20 years from now, who knows what the automotive landscape will look like. i can imagine self-driven cars, electric cars, and very very expensive gasoline.
just enjoy your ride.
also, you'd need to service the c2s religiously, drive it sparingly, keep it at less than 20k miles, keep all original parts, accident and respray free, and loaded to the gills with unknown rare and desirable options for your plan to pan out.
20 years from now, who knows what the automotive landscape will look like. i can imagine self-driven cars, electric cars, and very very expensive gasoline.
just enjoy your ride.
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traditionally c2s may go up more because of the bigger engine, wider rear, and less weight. but imo, 997 will not increase in value unless you get from a private party at trade-in price then sell it immediately.
also, you'd need to service the c2s religiously, drive it sparingly, keep it at less than 20k miles, keep all original parts, accident and respray free, and loaded to the gills with unknown rare and desirable options for your plan to pan out.
20 years from now, who knows what the automotive landscape will look like. i can imagine self-driven cars, electric cars, and very very expensive gasoline.
just enjoy your ride.
also, you'd need to service the c2s religiously, drive it sparingly, keep it at less than 20k miles, keep all original parts, accident and respray free, and loaded to the gills with unknown rare and desirable options for your plan to pan out.
20 years from now, who knows what the automotive landscape will look like. i can imagine self-driven cars, electric cars, and very very expensive gasoline.
just enjoy your ride.
C4, C4S, GTS and TT are wider in the hips.
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IMHO, 911's beyond the 993 will have never have a "collectability" factor. (Other than a few one-offs like GT3 4.0, etc)
The Carreras of the 60's, 70's and 80's were truly outrageous cars of their age.
Those cars were stylistically bold and the performance numbers and handling "quirks" were mind-blowing and compelling to a few overlapping generations of us that cut our teeth on Detroit iron.
To me, the 1989 Carrera was the apex for the 911 in Porsche building these cars completely unmindful of what any other manufacturers around them were doing.
They just built the 911 to be badder and bolder, year after year. They didn't care about silly things like modern day HVAC controls or fuse boxes.
With the 964 and then the 993, the 911 became less and less voluptuous and outrageous than it's predecessor (basket handle in place of a whale tail?).
By the time the 996 rolls along, the 911 has just become part of the stylistic blur of the two door performance coupe.
Mae West had morphed into Naomi Linda Christy Evangelista-Turlington-Campbell. This evolution began in 1990 and had been completed by 1999.
996s and 997s are not and never will be iconic. The other killer for the collectability of these cars are the sheer production numbers.
Point out a 1987 Carrera to a "non car person". 99% will tell you it's a Porsche 911. Try that with a 996, 997 or 991.
The Carreras of the 60's, 70's and 80's were truly outrageous cars of their age.
Those cars were stylistically bold and the performance numbers and handling "quirks" were mind-blowing and compelling to a few overlapping generations of us that cut our teeth on Detroit iron.
To me, the 1989 Carrera was the apex for the 911 in Porsche building these cars completely unmindful of what any other manufacturers around them were doing.
They just built the 911 to be badder and bolder, year after year. They didn't care about silly things like modern day HVAC controls or fuse boxes.
With the 964 and then the 993, the 911 became less and less voluptuous and outrageous than it's predecessor (basket handle in place of a whale tail?).
By the time the 996 rolls along, the 911 has just become part of the stylistic blur of the two door performance coupe.
Mae West had morphed into Naomi Linda Christy Evangelista-Turlington-Campbell. This evolution began in 1990 and had been completed by 1999.
996s and 997s are not and never will be iconic. The other killer for the collectability of these cars are the sheer production numbers.
Point out a 1987 Carrera to a "non car person". 99% will tell you it's a Porsche 911. Try that with a 996, 997 or 991.