slvr993

I have a 150 mile daily round trip commute, mostly highway. In the last 2.5 years I've put 80,000 miles on my Acura TL. The TL is a great car - dead nuts reliable and every feature has worked flawlessly always. But with as much time as I spend in my car I'd really like something even nicer, with some soul to it - in the next car.

I'd like to believe that a solid low mileage 997.2 C4S PDK would fit the bill. I live just outside philly, and commute to princeton. The 997 C4 has to be as good as my Acura in snow.

My big question is - are they reliable enough. I'd run it to about 150,000 miles before I let it go. Yes it will be maintained by Porsche regularly - I realize it will be worth almost nothing at that point. What I don't have time for is a car thats constantly giving me issues. I have a 2011 Cayenne with 22,000 miles and its reliable but theres always a small problem with something. Wiper nozzle, Bluetooth, Fuel gauge etc etc. I'm hoping thats a Cayenne thing and not a newer porsche thing. Other than the Cayenne I've only owned older 911s - SCs , 993s. Those were bullet proof, but I don't have any experience with the newer models.

So - thoughts - Is the 997.2 C4/s PDK a good candidate for a year round - 150,000 mile, low/ no problem car?

Thanks
Jeff

LexVan

Yes with proper maintenance and being proactive.

tcsracing1

considering the DFI motors could last the Daytona 24h in the Caymans, I would say you are good

slvr993

Its not just the motor and trans - its really everything else as well. Our Cayenne runs like a champ - but its in the shop every other month with some annoying issue. Nav is dead, blue tooth works only sometimes, fuel gauge stopped working yada yada.

englebert

The advantage is that the Gen 2 is based on a car a good few years old. Also, components are shared across the Porsche range. As such, i'd like to think the issues are ironed out by the time you sit in a late 997.2.

myw

you would think so, but there are some reports online of engine replacements on lower mile, new-ish 997.2 dfi engines.

generally i would assume they are reliable but how many 150k mile 09+ 911s are there? the cars are too new to know for certain.

Linnm

Can you provide details on the problems with the DFI engines, please?

cluster_fsck

OP, I basically had the same question a few months ago. I got out of my 2011 TL, which I liked, but it had no soul. Totally reliable and perfectly fine transportation, but I was looking to really drive something with character. My commute is nowhere near the length of yours, but has a mix of traffic and highway. I found a low mileage 2011 C4 that I plan on driving for as long as possible. From everything I've researched, as long as you take care of your car, perform preventative maintenance regularly and drive smart, your 997.2 should last. Mine is my DD and I have two kids I drop off and pickup from school. So far, it's been everything I hoped for and more. Love pulling into the Costco parking lot and getting it loaded with almost as much stuff as my TL (when I bring a kid, I can't put the large paper towel pack in the car)!

Robocop305

I have only read about one DFI engine failure. No enough explanation of why the failure occurred. I would still say the 997.2 is rock solid!

StormRune

Please keep in mind: Just seeing a lot of posts calling out problems doesn't mean that all of the cars have a lot of problems. People tend to post the problems, not the boring "Hey everybody, my car is still working". Instead, posts like "my car burst into flames" today make for a lot more interesting post.

Even a post like a somewhere boring DFI pump failure tends to attract more posts like "mine too" while most other readers who've never had that problem move on to the next interesting thing.

StormRune

One more thought: I would guess that most DDs aren't running around like complete bats-out-of-hell for most of their miles. Traffic around most cities doesn't really allow that. I would guess that some of the non-DDs are driven much harder for many of their miles, especially people tracking their cars... and therefore these cars would likely have engine problem sooner (but not necessarily early). These engines are robust race-worthy engines, but there is a lot of stress on even a well-built engine under near-race conditions and those stresses aren't cost-free.

That said, I saw an interesting thread somewhere around here recently that talks about how it is important to drive these engines hard at least on occasion. Simply summarizing: In most normal cars, the manufacturers don't have to worry about the engine enduring high heat racing temperatures, which lead to metal expansion, in the designs built into their cylinders and the clearances to their pistons. With conditions always being moderate, the pistons/rings can be made to fit into the cylinders more tightly. With our cars being designed to run at very high temperatures for long durations, the pistons/rings have to be made with a lot more slack under normal conditions to fit into the cylinder under extreme heat and the metal expansion that brings. During conservative driving, the pistons/rings (especially around the crown where it gets the hottest) have a lot more slack that pretty much any other car on the road. This is one of the reasons you see a puff of oil smoke on startup that most cars don't produce. The problem is that if the pistons never get stressed under high heat, carbon and burnt oil residue tend to build up around the sides of the crown and around the top section of rings which apparently isn't good for the pistons, the rings, or the cylinders over time.

Fortunately I bookmarked an article by a reputable company explaining this in great detail and was able to find it again: see http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%2...20part%205.pdf. It explains it far better than I can. See the attached picture from this article of a piston from a car that was never driven hard.

The morale of that story is that, be sure to drive your Porsche nice and hard at least occasionally... it's good for it! Of course, the cops and general public won't buy that excuse, so do so wisely and carefully.

slvr993

Thanks guys.

Cluster - looks like I'm in the same spot you were in. Great to hear its working out. Soul is the right word. I spend 3 hours a day in my car, I'd like the time to be less numb.

Storm..Thanks for the article. Driving it hard won't be an issue - I can see it at the occasional DE when I'm too lazy to load the trailer with the race car.

Jeff

pissedpuppy

Easy, my first p-car (1980 911SC) had 178K on the clock when I parted ways with it, and only because i had to get a four door vehicle for my first sales job!

Macster

Don't see why not.

FWIW, my 02 Boxster has covered 278K miles while my 03 Turbo has covered 120K miles. Both get used a lot.

Regular oil/filter services are a must.

Keep on top of issues. Do not let coolant leaks or other leaks go.

If you drive the car year round this might take a toll on the coils, as cars that are used in inclement weather frequently develop coil issues (misfires) compared to cars that are used in nicer weather. (Both my cars are on their original coils: The Boxster spent 2 years in the midwest being driven year 'round, the Turbo has spent its life in northern CA getting a bit wet during the rainy season (all two weeks of it…) with just a trip or two into the midwest and snow.

Also, the exhaust hardware, bolts/hangers, any items that are not stainless, will suffer so you might want to budget for exhaust hardware refresh at some point.

Have the car subjected to a road-worthiness inspection say in the fall before the weather gets bad. The tech if he spots anything amiss can advise you and you can be proactive if it is deemed necessary and address the issue before the weather gets bad. Then in the spring when the weather gets nice get another inspection. I have my cars road-worthiness inspected whenever they are in for an oil/filter service with the tech looking at tire condition, wear, brakes, looking for leaks, etc. This happens several times a year for each car.

Keep the radiator ducts free of trash/dirt and the body water drains clean.

StormRune

Thanks Macster, it's great to hear your success stories and all of the advice sounds golden! And that reminds me to go out and clean out the front ducts right away now that Texas Live Oak leaf-dropping season just ended.