Ultimate street survival / track attack combo
05-09-2014, 08:30 AM
#16
Drifting
High performance track pads squeak like hell and often need a lot of heat to work right, offer virtually no advantages for street driving since Porsche brakes are so damned good, even with the cheapest pads; unless you're actually tracking it, you're better off with street pads. I split the middle and switched to stoptechs with my last pad change; no complaints about performance or noise, though they're not as low-dust as I'd hoped.
05-15-2014, 12:36 AM
#17
Updated with video!
SCCA is mixing things up and changing to 200TW in 2015 for street class. Since Hankook claim RS3 'always been 200 UTQG,' V2 seems to only represent UTQG rating change and new sizing. Hoosier is updating their tires to R7/A7.
Brake dust is very good! Any pad will dust - just like tire scrubbing against road surface for grip, pads scrub against rotor for grip; materials will be shed. On OEM pads, after a full detail, a light 15 minute city drive will put annoying layer of brown dust on the car. With Endless MX72 pads, the car looks recently waxed even after parked outside and driven regularly for 2 weeks. The dust is still existent and accumulates much slower, and is also very fine and black in color so it doesn't look like a 4th color on the car.
The pads are also plenty capable at the track. Even if you use R compounds these pads seem to be sufficient for >moderate track use. They won't fade unless you are trying to stop like there is no tomorrow at every corner.
MPSS is not in the same category at all, but they are regularly misconceived as being dual duty/track capable tires. They are junk at the track.
The rubber compound on the Hankook RS3 has been updated, but they did not change the designation. The only way to tell is by the date code. IIRC, dates after APR14 are all the new compound. Anecdotally, grip is the same with the new compound, but it provides that grip at lower heat levels now. People are calling it "v2" on the internet, and TireRack changed the part# in their system to avoid confusion.
Hankook claims the RS3 was always a 200TW tire, they just called in a 140TW for marketing purposes... until all the popular racing series that used it required tires to meet 200TW. Rumors abound that Hoosier will do the same for the R6 & A6, lol.
Hankook claims the RS3 was always a 200TW tire, they just called in a 140TW for marketing purposes... until all the popular racing series that used it required tires to meet 200TW. Rumors abound that Hoosier will do the same for the R6 & A6, lol.
Brake dust is very good! Any pad will dust - just like tire scrubbing against road surface for grip, pads scrub against rotor for grip; materials will be shed. On OEM pads, after a full detail, a light 15 minute city drive will put annoying layer of brown dust on the car. With Endless MX72 pads, the car looks recently waxed even after parked outside and driven regularly for 2 weeks. The dust is still existent and accumulates much slower, and is also very fine and black in color so it doesn't look like a 4th color on the car.
The pads are also plenty capable at the track. Even if you use R compounds these pads seem to be sufficient for >moderate track use. They won't fade unless you are trying to stop like there is no tomorrow at every corner.
MPSS is not in the same category at all, but they are regularly misconceived as being dual duty/track capable tires. They are junk at the track.
05-15-2014, 06:49 AM
#18
Drifting
05-15-2014, 03:29 PM
#19
AutoX
Join Date: Apr 2014
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+1 
Tires are personal IMO, and many of the top brands would do, MPSS is a great compromise for track/street, while some of the more aggressive tires like RE-11 would go better on track, not so in rain.
For pads, one pad EVERYONE MISSES, is Ferodo 2500! I've been using it for a few years and it's absolutely THE BEST pad for both street/track, nothing else I've tried on GTI, S4, RS4, 997, and from all reviews could do what 2500 can do. It does very well on the street, and yet on track (with street tires) it just grips and grips with no fade! Can't recommend it highly enough.
Tires are personal IMO, and many of the top brands would do, MPSS is a great compromise for track/street, while some of the more aggressive tires like RE-11 would go better on track, not so in rain.
For pads, one pad EVERYONE MISSES, is Ferodo 2500! I've been using it for a few years and it's absolutely THE BEST pad for both street/track, nothing else I've tried on GTI, S4, RS4, 997, and from all reviews could do what 2500 can do. It does very well on the street, and yet on track (with street tires) it just grips and grips with no fade! Can't recommend it highly enough.
05-15-2014, 11:36 PM
#20
Race Director
Ok King...I needed some new street tires and wanted something grippy, fun for street and autox when I get lazy to put on track tires for a autox.
So....I bought those Yokohama AD08R and put a couple,hundred miles on them and was impressed on the street. So...I went and did a PCA autox and won!
Yokohama AD08R...impressive street tire that can be tracked or Autox'd
So....I bought those Yokohama AD08R and put a couple,hundred miles on them and was impressed on the street. So...I went and did a PCA autox and won!
Yokohama AD08R...impressive street tire that can be tracked or Autox'd
05-16-2014, 08:23 AM
#21
My previous daily was a a Golf R and i have to say the 911 they are no better; pretty disappointing considering the legendary reputation Porsche brakes have! When i jump out of the Turbo S with PCCBs it feels like i'm trying to stop a horse and cart 
Based on that, do the Carrera models use the same pad fittings as the Turbo and GT3 (non PCCB)? I managed to find the Endless for sale, but it says Turbo / GT3 fitment.
Finally, what do i need to fit for more camber? I am maxxed out and it there's not that aggressive stance i wanted.
Based on that, do the Carrera models use the same pad fittings as the Turbo and GT3 (non PCCB)? I managed to find the Endless for sale, but it says Turbo / GT3 fitment.
Finally, what do i need to fit for more camber? I am maxxed out and it there's not that aggressive stance i wanted.
05-16-2014, 03:21 PM
#23
Drifting
05-16-2014, 07:21 PM
#24
Ok King...I needed some new street tires and wanted something grippy, fun for street and autox when I get lazy to put on track tires for a autox.
So....I bought those Yokohama AD08R and put a couple,hundred miles on them and was impressed on the street. So...I went and did a PCA autox and won!
Yokohama AD08R...impressive street tire that can be tracked or Autox'd
So....I bought those Yokohama AD08R and put a couple,hundred miles on them and was impressed on the street. So...I went and did a PCA autox and won!
Yokohama AD08R...impressive street tire that can be tracked or Autox'd
My previous daily was a a Golf R and i have to say the 911 they are no better; pretty disappointing considering the legendary reputation Porsche brakes have! When i jump out of the Turbo S with PCCBs it feels like i'm trying to stop a horse and cart
Based on that, do the Carrera models use the same pad fittings as the Turbo and GT3 (non PCCB)? I managed to find the Endless for sale, but it says Turbo / GT3 fitment.
Finally, what do i need to fit for more camber? I am maxxed out and it there's not that aggressive stance i wanted.
Based on that, do the Carrera models use the same pad fittings as the Turbo and GT3 (non PCCB)? I managed to find the Endless for sale, but it says Turbo / GT3 fitment.
Finally, what do i need to fit for more camber? I am maxxed out and it there's not that aggressive stance i wanted.
PCCB discs
Front EIP153/HP232 MX72
Rear EIP175 MX72
Iron discs
Front EIP071 MX72
Rear EIP175 MX72
Gas stations usually don't maintain their air tanks. Just spray the air against your hand and see how much water comes out with it. Water in your tires will expand like crazy and make the psi go wild.
05-26-2014, 10:21 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
How to transform your car from a factory beast into the incredible hulk!
Tires
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R
The AD08R is currently the most awesome tire you can get. It is a refresh of the proven AD08 and is also the “freshest” tire in its category to hit the states. There are other brands I would have liked to consider, but there simply weren’t any offerings in the 19” wheel size that were attractive enough to compete with the AD08R. I also would have liked to consider BFG Rival, Dunlop Direzza ZII, Continental RE-11A, and Hankook RS-3, but as of 2 months ago none of them were offered for 19”. The Rivals and ZII may end up being a little faster, but lap times should only differ by a small margin, and for intended purposes the trade-offs in streetability and weird slip angles would not have put them at the top of the list.
The Bridgestone RE-11A, which received an update last year, would have been my second choice behind AD08R, but only the old RE-11 version of this tire was available in 19.” The Hankook RS-3 is very fast and proven tire, and seems to have popped up on Tire Rack in 19" at the time of this writing. Although Hankook re-labeled them as 200 UTQG tires last year, the tread pattern and compound appears to have been unchanged since they were first released back in 2009. They’re still a very competitive tire, I just don't like the idea of paying new money for old technology. The same goes for the OEM Bridgestone RE50A - even the N1 version of the RE50A is relatively outdated by now, but still costs more, has less grip, and will wear faster.
The AD08R’s replaced Michelin Pilot Super Sports. I really liked the MPSS on the street. They are superb in the rain, long lasting and will allow you to whip around the occasional corner at speed. It is too bad they are desperately inadequate when it comes to extracting performance out of a sports car. If you try to throw more than a few corners at the MPSS, they will grease up very quickly and start to disintegrate. Anything above 40psi and its slip ‘n shred; anything below 37psi and the sidewalls roll under; the only thing you’re left with is 3 PSI to do parade laps or rain driving.
Brake Pads
Endless MX72
Brake dust alone is a good enough reason to switch from stock pads. The MX72 pads are carbon ceramic and the amount of brake dust compared to stock has been reduced by at least 80%. Feel is more responsive and modulation is very accurate – it is easy to consistently scrub off a precise amount of speed. The pads are also whisper quiet with zero squealing or creaking. They were installed on new stock rotors. Something to mention is the MX72 pads are hesitant to stop when they are cold. A minor annoyance, but after a few initial stops to warm them up, the MX72 blow the stock pads out of the water in every way. The increased stopping power and control over braking is confidence inspiring and makes the car more engaging to drive.
Pagid, HPS, Hawk, Carbotech, etc. are popular brands but I didn’t find anything that really stood out from them. Like the AD08R, the Endless pads were an easy choice when it came to having the best combination of dual-duty performance. Also to note is that the MX72 seems to have been updated with a newer compound called the MXRS, but at the time I could not find sizing for 997.
Brake Fluid
Castrol SRF
It’s the best fluid on the market. Do your research and you’ll find the same information – OEM and Motul will need to be bled after any serious track use, SRF has been known to last many an entire season. It’s a no brainer; even if it seems absurdly expensive, the overall cost is the same if you bleed/flush mid-season with cheaper fluid, and you keep higher quality fluid in your lines.
Nitrogen
Nitrogen is free for Costco members. Take advantage of it, there's no reason not to. Don't ever use gas station air. Never ever. Use the portable compressor if you need to add air, otherwise just top off your nitrogen at Costco. If you don't want to get nitrogen, just make sure the air you pump is dry.
Alignment & Pressures
Max out the front camber (-1), max out the rear camber (-2), neutral front toe or slight toe out (.00-.08), and rear toe-in (.12-.32). This is a “when in doubt, throttle out” safety alignment – the setup gives the rear wheels a serious tendency to push the car straight, so if you get yourself into trouble you can just kick the throttle to reduce any unwanted rotation.
Start at .24 for rear toe-in, dial it up if find yourself spinning out easily, or dial it down if you find yourself understeering too much trying to get around the corner. For front toe, start at neutral and dial it out as you want to increase turn-in response.
With stock size 235/305 AD08R tires, I’ve used:
36/40 for street
33.25/38.5 for autocross
35-36/38-39 hot pressures coming off the track.
AD08R don't really get hot unless there is a lot of friction/slip. For DE or conservative practice, warm up to 38PSI and the tires are very easy to keep consistent for entire session. For time attack, 39 very hot in the rears will let you stomp out of corners like you are on R compound.
Tire Tools
Pick up Joe’s Racing tire gauge and Milton tread depth gauge, they are $20 and $5 on Amazon. Very handy tools that you can keep in the frunk box. If you want an infrared thermometer, Etekcity/TopG Dual lasers are quality meters for $25 on Amazon as well.
Other Tools
Harry's Lap Timer for Android or Iphone, $9-$20.
Mountek CD slot mount, $20 on Amazon.
Package in action!
Breakfast @ Buttonwillow Raceway Park - YouTube
Tires
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R
The AD08R is currently the most awesome tire you can get. It is a refresh of the proven AD08 and is also the “freshest” tire in its category to hit the states. There are other brands I would have liked to consider, but there simply weren’t any offerings in the 19” wheel size that were attractive enough to compete with the AD08R. I also would have liked to consider BFG Rival, Dunlop Direzza ZII, Continental RE-11A, and Hankook RS-3, but as of 2 months ago none of them were offered for 19”. The Rivals and ZII may end up being a little faster, but lap times should only differ by a small margin, and for intended purposes the trade-offs in streetability and weird slip angles would not have put them at the top of the list.
The Bridgestone RE-11A, which received an update last year, would have been my second choice behind AD08R, but only the old RE-11 version of this tire was available in 19.” The Hankook RS-3 is very fast and proven tire, and seems to have popped up on Tire Rack in 19" at the time of this writing. Although Hankook re-labeled them as 200 UTQG tires last year, the tread pattern and compound appears to have been unchanged since they were first released back in 2009. They’re still a very competitive tire, I just don't like the idea of paying new money for old technology. The same goes for the OEM Bridgestone RE50A - even the N1 version of the RE50A is relatively outdated by now, but still costs more, has less grip, and will wear faster.
The AD08R’s replaced Michelin Pilot Super Sports. I really liked the MPSS on the street. They are superb in the rain, long lasting and will allow you to whip around the occasional corner at speed. It is too bad they are desperately inadequate when it comes to extracting performance out of a sports car. If you try to throw more than a few corners at the MPSS, they will grease up very quickly and start to disintegrate. Anything above 40psi and its slip ‘n shred; anything below 37psi and the sidewalls roll under; the only thing you’re left with is 3 PSI to do parade laps or rain driving.
Brake Pads
Endless MX72
Brake dust alone is a good enough reason to switch from stock pads. The MX72 pads are carbon ceramic and the amount of brake dust compared to stock has been reduced by at least 80%. Feel is more responsive and modulation is very accurate – it is easy to consistently scrub off a precise amount of speed. The pads are also whisper quiet with zero squealing or creaking. They were installed on new stock rotors. Something to mention is the MX72 pads are hesitant to stop when they are cold. A minor annoyance, but after a few initial stops to warm them up, the MX72 blow the stock pads out of the water in every way. The increased stopping power and control over braking is confidence inspiring and makes the car more engaging to drive.
Pagid, HPS, Hawk, Carbotech, etc. are popular brands but I didn’t find anything that really stood out from them. Like the AD08R, the Endless pads were an easy choice when it came to having the best combination of dual-duty performance. Also to note is that the MX72 seems to have been updated with a newer compound called the MXRS, but at the time I could not find sizing for 997.
Brake Fluid
Castrol SRF
It’s the best fluid on the market. Do your research and you’ll find the same information – OEM and Motul will need to be bled after any serious track use, SRF has been known to last many an entire season. It’s a no brainer; even if it seems absurdly expensive, the overall cost is the same if you bleed/flush mid-season with cheaper fluid, and you keep higher quality fluid in your lines.
Nitrogen
Nitrogen is free for Costco members. Take advantage of it, there's no reason not to. Don't ever use gas station air. Never ever. Use the portable compressor if you need to add air, otherwise just top off your nitrogen at Costco. If you don't want to get nitrogen, just make sure the air you pump is dry.
Alignment & Pressures
Max out the front camber (-1), max out the rear camber (-2), neutral front toe or slight toe out (.00-.08), and rear toe-in (.12-.32). This is a “when in doubt, throttle out” safety alignment – the setup gives the rear wheels a serious tendency to push the car straight, so if you get yourself into trouble you can just kick the throttle to reduce any unwanted rotation.
Start at .24 for rear toe-in, dial it up if find yourself spinning out easily, or dial it down if you find yourself understeering too much trying to get around the corner. For front toe, start at neutral and dial it out as you want to increase turn-in response.
With stock size 235/305 AD08R tires, I’ve used:
36/40 for street
33.25/38.5 for autocross
35-36/38-39 hot pressures coming off the track.
AD08R don't really get hot unless there is a lot of friction/slip. For DE or conservative practice, warm up to 38PSI and the tires are very easy to keep consistent for entire session. For time attack, 39 very hot in the rears will let you stomp out of corners like you are on R compound.
Tire Tools
Pick up Joe’s Racing tire gauge and Milton tread depth gauge, they are $20 and $5 on Amazon. Very handy tools that you can keep in the frunk box. If you want an infrared thermometer, Etekcity/TopG Dual lasers are quality meters for $25 on Amazon as well.
Other Tools
Harry's Lap Timer for Android or Iphone, $9-$20.
Mountek CD slot mount, $20 on Amazon.
Package in action!
Breakfast @ Buttonwillow Raceway Park - YouTube
06-13-2014, 11:10 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
BUT these are the NOISIEST break pads I have ever had.
They make Pagid Orange/Yellow sound silent in comparison.
There is no way you can drive them on the street, my car sounds worse than a 50 year old school bus
I seriously hope that that they don't last a long time, so that I can get rid of them soon.
06-21-2014, 09:31 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Update on the Ferrodo DS 2500 pads.
These got to be the worst "track pads" I ever had on my car.
After exactly one lap in Laguna Seca while breaking for turn 2, I smelled the typical "my brake pads are overheating" smell and the brake pedal started to get very soft. I finished the rest of the lap slow & careful and pulled into the pits and the bad smell from the pads was overwhelming.
I fortunately had a set of "just in case" Pagid Yellow with me and the other 3 sessions went great.
What a piece of garbage these pads are: squeal like hell on the street and dangerous on the track.
If any of the posters who like them wants a whole set (f/r) of this junk you can have them for free, you just have to pay the shipping.
These got to be the worst "track pads" I ever had on my car.
After exactly one lap in Laguna Seca while breaking for turn 2, I smelled the typical "my brake pads are overheating" smell and the brake pedal started to get very soft. I finished the rest of the lap slow & careful and pulled into the pits and the bad smell from the pads was overwhelming.
I fortunately had a set of "just in case" Pagid Yellow with me and the other 3 sessions went great.
What a piece of garbage these pads are: squeal like hell on the street and dangerous on the track.
If any of the posters who like them wants a whole set (f/r) of this junk you can have them for free, you just have to pay the shipping.
06-21-2014, 10:11 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
So, all things being equal, compressed air in a tank going into a compressed environment, like a tire, should be a direct transfer. Any impurities the air may have picked up in the tank will remain (but I don't see what that has to do with the functional quality of the air or how it may degrade your car's performance.
