seahull

A tongue in cheek sharing of experiences with the Michelin Pilot Super Sport for sub-freezing driving. Living In The Mid Atlantic area, inside the DC Beltway.

In October, I acquired a 2008 997 Carrera which had brand new MPSS tires mounted on the 19" Lobster Forks. It turns out I had also mounted MPSSs on my 135i this spring, although slightly narrower tires, especially in the rear. The BMW has 300 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, while the Porsche has 325 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque, so very similar there and both real wheel drive with open diffs.

Porsche: 235/295 on 19" rims
BMW: 225/245 on 18" rims

In addition, we have an X3 which in theory serves as the winter "beater". I only work 1.5 miles from home and on the way to my wife's office which is 6 miles away. And I also have the option to work from whenever I desire. So I don't see the need to buy dedicated winter tires to handle the one or two snows a year. But because of the six+ snowfalls this winter and the months of sub-zero temps, I have been driving on the PSS summer tires more than projected.

Disclaimer- I never drove the PSSs on either car in actual snow, except one time when it started snowing in the 10 minute commute home. Slight dusting, but not serious snow. But I did drive both cars many times in sub freezing temperatures. One morning, I drove the C2 when the thermometer read 4 degrees (F). Most driving on dry but salt covered roads, with minor slush or wet patches.

Porsche feedback - extremely tail-happy, but easy to control with careful throttle application. This is actually a little fun, being able to get the rear end loose at low/legal speeds. Watch out for extreme salt application (dry or standing puddles when below freezing) as the salt is very slippery. Braking is very compromised as the front tires loose grip before the weight transfers up front. Lots of ABS feedback.

BMW feedback: not nearly as tail-happy, as the electronic nannies limited power on detection of rear slip. Always felt under control, even under braking and spirited driving. I suspect the braking was better as this car had near 50:50 weight distribution, so more weight over the front Brembos. Only a few times in hard(ish) braking did ABS kick in.

Summary: If you want a little more fun in your driving, you can take your car out in the winter with these tires. But learn the new much lower limits and don't take extreme chances. Both of these cars were slipping at about the same speeds as I experienced with my VW (New Beetle Turbo Convertible) in summertime. And don't forget to wash off the salt!

Apparently I will have more chances to test this put this winter. More snow coming on Wednesday and low temperatures (20s) to boot. Maybe some instrumented comparisons...

Jake951

Driving these tires in snow is a seriously bad idea! Don't even be tempted to try it. I once got caught in an unexpected snow storm on performance summer tires and I had absolutely zero traction. Eventually I had to get towed when I went off the side of the road and could not get going again. Enough said.

user 72902

+1

myw

+10000000

exactly what happened to my wife in our rwd sedan with summers.

light snow hit practically out of nowhere and she needed a tow 5 mins away from home.

utkinpol

True, but i drive z1 star specs all year long and they behave fine. Definitely do not turn into glass how older ps2 tires used to do.
But i never tried them in a middle of snow storm. Only in clear cold conditions.

awrryan

"If you want a little more fun in your driving, you can take your car out in the winter with these tires."

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. No. You shouldn't drive a 911 in the winter with summer tires. Even the cold weather alone on dry cold winter days has an effect on the tires. I know this from personal experience driving 911s in the cold winters of Montreal. The rubber gets hard and doesn't stick nearly as well. Did the OP see the recent post of a member driving his car in a ditch (that car also on summer tires if I remember correctly). I typically don't care what other people do, but it's frustrating when they put other lives in danger. Don't drive cars in winter weather without appropriate tires. Summer tires in winter are not appropriate tires.

Fred R. C4S

Apparently the OP missed the post from a gentleman who had to take evasive action into a ditch because his summer tires were being driven in a light snow. Advising others to do something a stupid as the OP suggest is ridiculous. What the OP doesn't see is the unexpected situations that develop in the blink of eye where even a slight compromise in control can be dangerous if not lethal.

In my 10+ years on Rennlist, this is about the dumbest thing I've ever read! Seriously!

myw

in my short time one of the funniest/bizarre.

BogdanR

+1 on this one! Driving in winter on summer tires is not fun in a regular front wheel drive sedan. On a "torquey" performance car its downright insane.

It's actually not funny to watch how many people (and lately I'm about to swear they're the same people all the time) end up in ditches at the slightest whiff of snow on the roads... There's this person in this Kia Sedona whom I've seen this winter roughly in the same ditch 3 or 4 times...

wheeler

I've driven my PS2's throughout the winter, on and off, not a daily driver by any means. There is certainly a loss of traction if you're getting on it at all, but under "normal" driving conditions (driving like everyone else) I've never thought they were "unsafe" at least down to like 18 degrees or so. I get a little fun tail wag here and there but have enough sense not to push it either. Now SNOW is a completely different story, my car has never seen it. Are the PS2's different in my scenario than the PSS's?? Am I getting a little more cold weather traction with the PS2's? I ask because I don't drive enough to warrant winter tires, but I do enjoy a drive even on a cold day and with the PS2's so if I'm getting a little more winter traction that might make me choose them again over the PSS when I replace.

rvp325carrera

Note to OP: should you get into an accident, remember that you've essentially confessed -- on a public forum no less -- to driving on tires not intended for use below 40 or so degrees F. That is the manufacturer's stringent recommendation. And for good reason.

Careful with your driving...and whilst posting on the Internet.

RobC4sX51

with just 6 months as a User I think you all just discouraged Seahull from ever posting lucky post number 7! Lighten up guys. Not a good idea to drive summer tires in winter, but really the dumbest thing on Rennlist ever?

Para82

seahull

So that's a little serious here. You think I am confessing to a criminal negligence.

Let me ask you - do Porsche dealers allow delivery of their cars when the temperatures drop below 40 degrees? I bought my car from a Porsche dealer who allowed me to drive off the lot with tires they knew (or you believe they knew) were reckless to drive in when the temperature was below 40. Do they stop all cars being driven off the lot without requiring the new owners to swap out the tires to all-season tires at a minimum? Perhaps I missed the disclaimer to sign when I purchased the car. As truly I never received any notification that these tires are illegal to drive at temperatures below 40 degrees, nor truly any "stringent recommendation". Neither when I bought this car, nor when I purchased the tires from my BMW from Tire Rack. Perhaps you are also accusing Tire Rack of negligence for selling any tires other than all season tires, as they may suspect that might be driven in temperatures outside the design criteria.

When it did snow at work one day, I just had my wife pick me up in the SUV. The BMW sat in a garage at work for another day until the streets were clear of snow. No problems. When a twenty minute walk is the other alternative, one does need to take significant risks.

What I have observed is that these tires appear to drive safely though degraded even at lower temperatures that they were designed for. I commented that they provide more traction in dry and wet conditions (but certainly not snow) than a previous car I had owned. Degraded performance for these tires in this car is still significantly better than many cars you can buy with "proper" tires.

rvp325carrera

From the Tirerack website:

"While Pilot Super Sport tires are designed to allow sports cars, sporty coupes, performance sedans and supercars to achieve their full potential in dry and wet conditions, like all summer tires they are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."

All I'm saying: be careful. And heed the advice. I drive my car 365. Between dec - march, I run Pirelli Sottozeros.