Manual vs PDK for 997 C4S
01-08-2014, 09:34 PM
#31
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I have a 6 Speed and I am glad I do, I bought it knowing it was slower than the PDK. I live in an area with little or no traffic and I have 4 vehicles.
That said I thought I would never buy a PDK until I drove one on a track, it is Outstanding. In Sport and Sport Plus mode it was amazing how good it did, I would consider one next time. On the flip side I would NOT buy one thinking it is and Automatic that can also be a Manual, it is not. I have owned many cars with the Paddle Shifters, NONE are like owning a Manual. I use the paddles 1-2 times and it already gets old.
If I could go back and do it all over I would still buy a 6 Speed, I enjoy shifting and like I said earlier I am not in an area that has traffic.
Good Luck!!!!!
That said I thought I would never buy a PDK until I drove one on a track, it is Outstanding. In Sport and Sport Plus mode it was amazing how good it did, I would consider one next time. On the flip side I would NOT buy one thinking it is and Automatic that can also be a Manual, it is not. I have owned many cars with the Paddle Shifters, NONE are like owning a Manual. I use the paddles 1-2 times and it already gets old.
If I could go back and do it all over I would still buy a 6 Speed, I enjoy shifting and like I said earlier I am not in an area that has traffic.
Good Luck!!!!!
01-09-2014, 02:31 PM
#33
I have driven PDKs. They are everything the proponents say they are. I am happy there is such awesome technology, so that I will still be able to own a Porsche when I am no longer physically able to operate a clutch and use a gear lever.
01-11-2014, 08:53 AM
#35
I Just got a 2010 Targa 4S PDK 2 weeks ago. I live in New York City and have driven a 6 speed RX-8 in city traffic for the past 10 years. In my search for a 911 Targa (wanted a hacthback since I can only have 1 car), I drove quite a few cars, and was planning on getting a manual. Before I bought one, I decided to test drive a PDK (non s non sport) car. It was weird at first and I thought I'd be giving up a lot, since I am a very active driver, but decided over the long term PDK would be the best option for me.
Since getting my car (which was the only S/sport chrono car I had driven up to this point) I can't relate how happy I am with the choice. As everyone says, sport option is a must (and obviously can be added later)
I love having the option of full auto or then full manual when needed. Last few times I drove I have been using the auto but then paddle downshifting when needed to pass, etc. I think this is the most useful mode of all for everyday driving (auto with manual overide). I would think this would also save gas since you don't have to kick down the throttle to get to a lower gear (and end up possibly accelerating too much) - With the manual downshift at the same throttle position - the car seems to do exactly what I want it to.
I also really like when cruising 30 mph or so to keep it full manual and go back and forth between 2nd and third as needed, just as I did with my old 6 speed.
If I lived in a suburban area without much traffic I would have probably stayed with the 6 speed out of habit and fear of giving something up, but I have no regrets about the PDK. -As a bonus it's so much easier to pull into to tight underground garage entrance at 1 or 2 MPH than in a manual (without having to wear the clutch)
Since getting my car (which was the only S/sport chrono car I had driven up to this point) I can't relate how happy I am with the choice. As everyone says, sport option is a must (and obviously can be added later)
I love having the option of full auto or then full manual when needed. Last few times I drove I have been using the auto but then paddle downshifting when needed to pass, etc. I think this is the most useful mode of all for everyday driving (auto with manual overide). I would think this would also save gas since you don't have to kick down the throttle to get to a lower gear (and end up possibly accelerating too much) - With the manual downshift at the same throttle position - the car seems to do exactly what I want it to.
I also really like when cruising 30 mph or so to keep it full manual and go back and forth between 2nd and third as needed, just as I did with my old 6 speed.
If I lived in a suburban area without much traffic I would have probably stayed with the 6 speed out of habit and fear of giving something up, but I have no regrets about the PDK. -As a bonus it's so much easier to pull into to tight underground garage entrance at 1 or 2 MPH than in a manual (without having to wear the clutch)
12-13-2015, 11:26 PM
#36
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I have just concluded a 4+ month search for a good used 997.2 C4S to replace my 2004 996 C4S. At first, being a traditionalist through and through, I only considered cars with a manual transmission but the wide press given to the proficiency of the PDK coupled with the market evidence that manual cars are not in abundance have driven me to at least consider this option. Therefore, I test drove several cars with PDK transmission, some of them for several hours, courtesy of friendly dealers. My conclusion is that, while the PDK transmission is certainly a vast improvement over the old-style automatic transmission, it still cannot compare with a manual transmission in terms of driver participation and enjoyment. It is true that PDK is incredibly quick and absolutely flawless in operation but, in a way, those very qualities result in an artificial and synthetic feeling. Pushing or pulling a paddle and (barely) feeling the seamless gear changes is simply not the same, and for me not as rewarding, as throwing a short gear stick in a deliberate pattern and clearly hearing and feeling the engine respond to these throws.
Finally, and I have never yet seen this mentioned, there is an aesthetic aspect to this comparison which is quite important, at least it is to me. While the manual transmission stick is a thing of beauty surrounded by a nice leather boot to harmoniously integrate it into the console, the PDK lever is all-stainless affair which sticks out like a sore thumb. It seems to me that Porsche should have tried a little harder to make the (inevitable) transition from manual to PDK a little easier by at least attempting to “camouflage” the PDK stick of the 911 with a leather boot as they have done in the Macan and as several other manufacturers such as Mercedes, have also done. That way, old traditionalists such as me could at least pretend to fool themselves into believing that they are still driving a manual transmission car.
Needless to say that I finally ended up buying a 2011 997.2 C4S with a manual transmission.
Finally, and I have never yet seen this mentioned, there is an aesthetic aspect to this comparison which is quite important, at least it is to me. While the manual transmission stick is a thing of beauty surrounded by a nice leather boot to harmoniously integrate it into the console, the PDK lever is all-stainless affair which sticks out like a sore thumb. It seems to me that Porsche should have tried a little harder to make the (inevitable) transition from manual to PDK a little easier by at least attempting to “camouflage” the PDK stick of the 911 with a leather boot as they have done in the Macan and as several other manufacturers such as Mercedes, have also done. That way, old traditionalists such as me could at least pretend to fool themselves into believing that they are still driving a manual transmission car.
Needless to say that I finally ended up buying a 2011 997.2 C4S with a manual transmission.
12-14-2015, 02:48 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
I have just concluded a 4+ month search for a good used 997.2 C4S to replace my 2004 996 C4S. At first, being a traditionalist through and through, I only considered cars with a manual transmission but the wide press given to the proficiency of the PDK coupled with the market evidence that manual cars are not in abundance have driven me to at least consider this option. Therefore, I test drove several cars with PDK transmission, some of them for several hours, courtesy of friendly dealers. My conclusion is that, while the PDK transmission is certainly a vast improvement over the old-style automatic transmission, it still cannot compare with a manual transmission in terms of driver participation and enjoyment. It is true that PDK is incredibly quick and absolutely flawless in operation but, in a way, those very qualities result in an artificial and synthetic feeling. Pushing or pulling a paddle and (barely) feeling the seamless gear changes is simply not the same, and for me not as rewarding, as throwing a short gear stick in a deliberate pattern and clearly hearing and feeling the engine respond to these throws.
Finally, and I have never yet seen this mentioned, there is an aesthetic aspect to this comparison which is quite important, at least it is to me. While the manual transmission stick is a thing of beauty surrounded by a nice leather boot to harmoniously integrate it into the console, the PDK lever is all-stainless affair which sticks out like a sore thumb. It seems to me that Porsche should have tried a little harder to make the (inevitable) transition from manual to PDK a little easier by at least attempting to “camouflage” the PDK stick of the 911 with a leather boot as they have done in the Macan and as several other manufacturers such as Mercedes, have also done. That way, old traditionalists such as me could at least pretend to fool themselves into believing that they are still driving a manual transmission car.
Needless to say that I finally ended up buying a 2011 997.2 C4S with a manual transmission.
Finally, and I have never yet seen this mentioned, there is an aesthetic aspect to this comparison which is quite important, at least it is to me. While the manual transmission stick is a thing of beauty surrounded by a nice leather boot to harmoniously integrate it into the console, the PDK lever is all-stainless affair which sticks out like a sore thumb. It seems to me that Porsche should have tried a little harder to make the (inevitable) transition from manual to PDK a little easier by at least attempting to “camouflage” the PDK stick of the 911 with a leather boot as they have done in the Macan and as several other manufacturers such as Mercedes, have also done. That way, old traditionalists such as me could at least pretend to fool themselves into believing that they are still driving a manual transmission car.
Needless to say that I finally ended up buying a 2011 997.2 C4S with a manual transmission.
12-14-2015, 02:57 AM
#38
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I brought my 997.2 PDK home from LA - SF yesterday. I would've lost my mind in the LA traffic if I had a manual. Given I live in SF proper and it is my only car, I have no regrets on the PDK. I love it, even my GF loves it.
If i lived in rural Vermont for example, 6 speed all the way.
If i lived in rural Vermont for example, 6 speed all the way.
12-14-2015, 07:22 AM
#39
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I really love the pre-86 911s (and 964s and 993s) and I still consider them as the "true" Porsches. However, I am really too tall (6'6") to comfortably fit in them and, being neither mechanically inclined nor very rich, I cannot really afford to properly maintain one. Hence, the compromise of a 997.
12-14-2015, 08:59 AM
#40
Do you smoke, eat, drink, text, vape, e-mail, shave, or apply make-up while you drive? Then get MT and start using both hands and feet when you drive :-)
Will track days or autocrossing be high priorities? Then get PDK, it is faster.
If you are choosing PDK to make the 997 more "practical" as a daily driver I suspect that input from an enthusiast forum--like this one--doesn't add much value to your decision process.
If the 997 will be your only car and you live in a car unfriendly zone skip the 997 for now and try again later when owning a high performing sports car makes more sense.
Will track days or autocrossing be high priorities? Then get PDK, it is faster.
If you are choosing PDK to make the 997 more "practical" as a daily driver I suspect that input from an enthusiast forum--like this one--doesn't add much value to your decision process.
If the 997 will be your only car and you live in a car unfriendly zone skip the 997 for now and try again later when owning a high performing sports car makes more sense.
12-14-2015, 05:58 PM
#41
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[FONT=Arial]...Porsche should have tried a little harder to make the (inevitable) transition from manual to PDK a little easier by at least attempting to “camouflage” the PDK stick of the 911 with a leather boot as they have done in the Macan and as several other manufacturers such as Mercedes, have also done. That way, old traditionalists such as me could at least pretend to fool themselves into believing that they are still driving a manual transmission car. ]
Los Angeles rush hour traffic makes driving my 6 speed 997.1 a pain. But it's not my daily driver so I deal with it. My PDK GTS was way easier in traffic and to carve canyons with, the tip driven manually actually felt more like an MT than the PDK.
The 6 speed manual rewards me for good technique, and humbles me when I fail. That makes the whole experience way more engaging. With PDK &Tip, the car is doing most of the work. With manual transmission, the car and I must contribute equally to the process.
12-14-2015, 06:41 PM
#42
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What a great thread, every opinion is correct. My "right answer" is around the aesthetic and historic challenge of an MT. My '08 C4S is heavily modified for the track, where I take it more than 20 days a summer. I absolutely agree that PDK is, in the hands of the same driver, likely to produce faster lap times. If I were a pro and my living was dependent on lap times, this would matter.
But.......nailing perfect heal,toe shifts (and assuming you have the right gear to start with) for all 14 turns at Road America is thrilling, and very very challenging. If I'm on I can do it, but as soon as I get tired or distracted, I miss. Bang goes .3 seconds. And yet, the purity of the pursuit is so satisfying. PDK's simply allow any driver to shut off a part of the experience and turn it over to a computer. Clinical, efficient, but remote. I'll keep the manual connection.
But.......nailing perfect heal,toe shifts (and assuming you have the right gear to start with) for all 14 turns at Road America is thrilling, and very very challenging. If I'm on I can do it, but as soon as I get tired or distracted, I miss. Bang goes .3 seconds. And yet, the purity of the pursuit is so satisfying. PDK's simply allow any driver to shut off a part of the experience and turn it over to a computer. Clinical, efficient, but remote. I'll keep the manual connection.
12-14-2015, 08:24 PM
#43
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Lots of great comparisons and thoughts on here already but I'll share my perspective. I need to have at least one manual car to drive.
I had a 6 speed Targa 4, which I loved but ended up getting a PDK C4S. I do miss the involvement of the 6 speed for sure, but I love the ruthless efficiency of the PDK. Since Porsche make such fantastic manuals, I think you should experience it sometime 😄.
In a perfect world I'll add a used 997.1 manual in the future and have the both of best worlds. For the sake of comparison, I also have a 2008 GTI (dsg) and a 2016 GTI with the performance pack and a 6 speed. I love rowing through the 6 speeds, even though the 2008 is more 'point and shoot'.
Try and find a dealer with both and drive them back to back.
I had a 6 speed Targa 4, which I loved but ended up getting a PDK C4S. I do miss the involvement of the 6 speed for sure, but I love the ruthless efficiency of the PDK. Since Porsche make such fantastic manuals, I think you should experience it sometime 😄.
In a perfect world I'll add a used 997.1 manual in the future and have the both of best worlds. For the sake of comparison, I also have a 2008 GTI (dsg) and a 2016 GTI with the performance pack and a 6 speed. I love rowing through the 6 speeds, even though the 2008 is more 'point and shoot'.
Try and find a dealer with both and drive them back to back.
12-15-2015, 12:47 AM
#44
Nordschleife Master
I have just concluded a 4+ month search for a good used 997.2 C4S to replace my 2004 996 C4S. At first, being a traditionalist through and through, I only considered cars with a manual transmission but the wide press given to the proficiency of the PDK coupled with the market evidence that manual cars are not in abundance have driven me to at least consider this option. Therefore, I test drove several cars with PDK transmission, some of them for several hours, courtesy of friendly dealers. My conclusion is that, while the PDK transmission is certainly a vast improvement over the old-style automatic transmission, it still cannot compare with a manual transmission in terms of driver participation and enjoyment. It is true that PDK is incredibly quick and absolutely flawless in operation but, in a way, those very qualities result in an artificial and synthetic feeling. Pushing or pulling a paddle and (barely) feeling the seamless gear changes is simply not the same, and for me not as rewarding, as throwing a short gear stick in a deliberate pattern and clearly hearing and feeling the engine respond to these throws.
Manual in sport plus is not seamless if driven spirited. The shifts are brutally quick and finish with a nice pop from the exhaust. I'll say this though. The early PDK's were the best in terms of overall sports car feel. But there were failures and it seems like they've soften things up with the later versions. What model year was the car you drove?
12-15-2015, 01:40 AM
#45
For those that said PDK is a real thrill on the track!
Heck yeah it is... I love my PDK ( I love manuals too ).
However, if you want to get the fastest last time .. yup PDK
Just love those crazy shift times on sports plus mode with AWD traction -
Sling shot out of those corners
^me at PIR
Heck yeah it is... I love my PDK ( I love manuals too ).
However, if you want to get the fastest last time .. yup PDK
Just love those crazy shift times on sports plus mode with AWD traction -
Sling shot out of those corners
^me at PIR