advice
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Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2013
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advice
Hello,
I am new to this forum. I am considering purchasing a 10 year old 911. I have always wanted one and my daughter is turning sixteen. I can give her my much loved Tundra and have the car I have always wanted. From my brief research it seems that is when the prices seem to flatten out. They don't get any cheaper and you can still find some with under 50K mileage at the ten year mark. My questions are.
Can I handle the oil changes, brakes belts and hoses myself? I have a ton of exp but none on a porsche. I have rebuilt car and bike motors myself. Does it require special tools and techniques I wont want to attempt.
DO I want to avoid a certain mileage mark? When do these cars get problematic?
Is their a year I want to avoid?
I was thinking a convertible would be fun is that going to present more issue do to the body flex over ten years?
I want a manual. Should I consider a tiptronic due to resale or maintenance issue?
Should I avoid any car that has been fitted with aftermarket parts. I find many that have been lowered? does this stiffen them up to much?
DO I want to avoid a carrera4. Does the four-wheel drive become a problem with age?
Any other advice you may have would be great also.
Thank you
Gordon LeBlanc
I am new to this forum. I am considering purchasing a 10 year old 911. I have always wanted one and my daughter is turning sixteen. I can give her my much loved Tundra and have the car I have always wanted. From my brief research it seems that is when the prices seem to flatten out. They don't get any cheaper and you can still find some with under 50K mileage at the ten year mark. My questions are.
Can I handle the oil changes, brakes belts and hoses myself? I have a ton of exp but none on a porsche. I have rebuilt car and bike motors myself. Does it require special tools and techniques I wont want to attempt.
DO I want to avoid a certain mileage mark? When do these cars get problematic?
Is their a year I want to avoid?
I was thinking a convertible would be fun is that going to present more issue do to the body flex over ten years?
I want a manual. Should I consider a tiptronic due to resale or maintenance issue?
Should I avoid any car that has been fitted with aftermarket parts. I find many that have been lowered? does this stiffen them up to much?
DO I want to avoid a carrera4. Does the four-wheel drive become a problem with age?
Any other advice you may have would be great also.
Thank you
Gordon LeBlanc
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 366
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Gordon, you may want to check out the "996" forum, given your search for a 10 year-old 911. The 997 version is MY2005-2012 (model dependent). The 996 series is 1999-2004
If your are mechanically inclined, there should be no reason that 911 cannot be in your garage (actually, it should be!) if you are at DIYer.
Check out the excellent DIY sticky at the top of this forum, which will give you an idea as to the complexity of the regular maintenance taskes.
Good luck with your search.
If your are mechanically inclined, there should be no reason that 911 cannot be in your garage (actually, it should be!) if you are at DIYer.
Check out the excellent DIY sticky at the top of this forum, which will give you an idea as to the complexity of the regular maintenance taskes.
Good luck with your search.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 208
Likes: 7
From: Los Alamos, NM
I've got an 05 997. So far I've done all the maintenance myself using the information on this board and a few others. The only tooling I've needed is a good selection of metric tools and a star/torx set. I had the metrics, and I've spent maybe $40 to get a torx set. I also bought a coolant refilling system (airlift at $100) to refill the coolant system. There is quite a lot of DIY information out there, so I don't think you'll have a problem working on the car if you're good with a search engine.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 498
Likes: 4
From: Houston, TX
I have a 2006 and have done the following in my garage:
1. Brake fluid
2. Plugs/coils
3. Oil
4. Serpentine belt
5. Air filter
All with the DIY's posted on this site. If I can do it, I know you can. I have never rebuilt any engine. As stated above - a decent tool set and maybe a specialty tool here or there should get you through most of the normal maintenance.
Also, since you are looking in the 1999-2005 years, you should inform yourself about potential issues (I'm almost afraid to write it, but I will) with the IMS.
There is a thread here (maybe a sticky) that has the Porsche settlement for IMS failures and it includes VINs. That may help inform your decision on which year and/or specific car you want. I'm not in any way trying to indicate a level of risk - only pointing out something that you did not mention knowledge of in your original post.
1. Brake fluid
2. Plugs/coils
3. Oil
4. Serpentine belt
5. Air filter
All with the DIY's posted on this site. If I can do it, I know you can. I have never rebuilt any engine. As stated above - a decent tool set and maybe a specialty tool here or there should get you through most of the normal maintenance.
Also, since you are looking in the 1999-2005 years, you should inform yourself about potential issues (I'm almost afraid to write it, but I will) with the IMS.
There is a thread here (maybe a sticky) that has the Porsche settlement for IMS failures and it includes VINs. That may help inform your decision on which year and/or specific car you want. I'm not in any way trying to indicate a level of risk - only pointing out something that you did not mention knowledge of in your original post.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,087
Likes: 51
From: MA
all work is doable. everything in the 996/997 is accessible and all/most maintenance work does not require lift.
motor issues (potential) can get very expensive and old M96 motors are not good in stock version. you may need to read a lot about engine rebuilds. if you find a 996 car that had gone over LN eng rebuild with 'nickies' cylinders installed, IMS bearing replaced and rods replaced - you will be fine as it is what any M96 needs. newer post-2006 M96/M97 motors are a bit better in this regard as they have several internal changes in the block to reduce number of d-chuck failures and also have better rods from what I understand - but those newer motors would also eventually want a similar rebuild. If you`ll go with a 2009+ car - it has 9a1 motor and it is a best option to have, but it is still very costly.
read this link
http://www.lnengineering.com/boxster.html
it is a must to know info about those cars, especially looking at 996 model years.
other than motors those cars are pretty much tanks. very stiff, good metal, transmission in 997/996 is so-so but it is repairable when time comes.
engines are, well, read about it.
if you have $50K+ budget you can try to search for a 996 gt3 car or 996 turbo car. that would have proper mezger engine and if it was not tracked to death it will serve you well long time. but a complete rebuild of a mezger engine is usually costlier than a comparable rebuild of a M96 engine, keep that in mind as well.
motor issues (potential) can get very expensive and old M96 motors are not good in stock version. you may need to read a lot about engine rebuilds. if you find a 996 car that had gone over LN eng rebuild with 'nickies' cylinders installed, IMS bearing replaced and rods replaced - you will be fine as it is what any M96 needs. newer post-2006 M96/M97 motors are a bit better in this regard as they have several internal changes in the block to reduce number of d-chuck failures and also have better rods from what I understand - but those newer motors would also eventually want a similar rebuild. If you`ll go with a 2009+ car - it has 9a1 motor and it is a best option to have, but it is still very costly.
read this link
http://www.lnengineering.com/boxster.html
it is a must to know info about those cars, especially looking at 996 model years.
other than motors those cars are pretty much tanks. very stiff, good metal, transmission in 997/996 is so-so but it is repairable when time comes.
engines are, well, read about it.
if you have $50K+ budget you can try to search for a 996 gt3 car or 996 turbo car. that would have proper mezger engine and if it was not tracked to death it will serve you well long time. but a complete rebuild of a mezger engine is usually costlier than a comparable rebuild of a M96 engine, keep that in mind as well.
Last edited by utkinpol; Jul 11, 2013 at 01:22 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 177
Likes: 9
From: Chicagoland
Here is my 2 cents....
Before my C2S, I owned an Audi that had a high maintenance burden. I did a LOT of DIY, but blown turbos/motor was not something I could do. The Porsche is very similar high maintenance and has big ticket repairs I cannot do. So here is my advice...
If you are stretching yourself to near the limit to get into this car, then don't do it. If you are always worried that a major repair will render the car unsable for months while you arrange the funds, the fear will make driving the car misserable. Cars break, it happens.
In my opinion, you need to be prepared to pay ~$10K for repairs. $10K will destroy my annual budget, change my dining out schedule (i.e. eliminate all special meals) and likely cancel a vacation. But it will not make me miss a mortgage payment nor will take food off my table (the food will change, but I will eat every meal). I will swear and curse and hate my car for a while, but I will survive. And then I will smile again when I drive it.
If an unexpected $10K bill will destroy your life (or your family's), then do not get a 10 year old Porsche. Or you need to be prepared to have a non-functioning P-car in you driveway for several months while you scrap together the money to fix it.
If you are stretching yourself to near the limit to get into this car, then don't do it. If you are always worried that a major repair will render the car unsable for months while you arrange the funds, the fear will make driving the car misserable. Cars break, it happens.
In my opinion, you need to be prepared to pay ~$10K for repairs. $10K will destroy my annual budget, change my dining out schedule (i.e. eliminate all special meals) and likely cancel a vacation. But it will not make me miss a mortgage payment nor will take food off my table (the food will change, but I will eat every meal). I will swear and curse and hate my car for a while, but I will survive. And then I will smile again when I drive it.
If an unexpected $10K bill will destroy your life (or your family's), then do not get a 10 year old Porsche. Or you need to be prepared to have a non-functioning P-car in you driveway for several months while you scrap together the money to fix it.
Trending Topics
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,970
Likes: 114
From: Vancouver, BC
- You can do most of the basic work on 996/997
- If you can afford later 997 models, it is advisable to get 2006 build date cars and later, due to upgrades to IMS
- If you cannot afford later 997 models, then budget $1500-2000 for an IMS upgrade and Clutch for a pre-2005 car (both 996 and 997). This is advisable to prevent IMS failure which has happened to about 5% of those cars (still low, but failure causes engine damage)
- Avoid cars with aftermarket bits, unless those parts are important to you
- Avoid too high of a milage, AND too low... if a car is only parked and not driven, it may develop leaks and other issues
- Do NOT need to avoid C4, C4S, we haven't heard much (or experienced) of higher maintenance. It is logical that it might, but evidence isn't there yet
- Biggest cost of these cars outside major failures stated are (1) tires, (2) Oil change, (3) replacement parts.
Honestly my 6yr old 997, has been a lot more reliable and has needed less maintenance than my previous Audi and VW GTI cars. It's a fairly solid car, and as long as it's taken care of, could last you a long time. But as Chicago guy stated, as it's a German sports car, you always need to know that there's a possibility of a 10K repair (while very rare), so if that breaks the bank, don't do it.
- If you can afford later 997 models, it is advisable to get 2006 build date cars and later, due to upgrades to IMS
- If you cannot afford later 997 models, then budget $1500-2000 for an IMS upgrade and Clutch for a pre-2005 car (both 996 and 997). This is advisable to prevent IMS failure which has happened to about 5% of those cars (still low, but failure causes engine damage)
- Avoid cars with aftermarket bits, unless those parts are important to you
- Avoid too high of a milage, AND too low... if a car is only parked and not driven, it may develop leaks and other issues
- Do NOT need to avoid C4, C4S, we haven't heard much (or experienced) of higher maintenance. It is logical that it might, but evidence isn't there yet
- Biggest cost of these cars outside major failures stated are (1) tires, (2) Oil change, (3) replacement parts.
Honestly my 6yr old 997, has been a lot more reliable and has needed less maintenance than my previous Audi and VW GTI cars. It's a fairly solid car, and as long as it's taken care of, could last you a long time. But as Chicago guy stated, as it's a German sports car, you always need to know that there's a possibility of a 10K repair (while very rare), so if that breaks the bank, don't do it.
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Joe Kucinski
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,087
Likes: 51
From: MA
I would presume quite a significant number of 996 cars had their engines already updated or rebuilt. it is just something to pay attention to while shopping. an abstract $10k rule is probably correct, I myself keep $20k aside for motor issues.
it sux but as long as it costs twice more than $20k to upgrade into a good 2009+ car I do like it makes financial sense to me.
it sux but as long as it costs twice more than $20k to upgrade into a good 2009+ car I do like it makes financial sense to me.
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,041
Likes: 29
From: Beautiful North Carolina
OP: find a good car with low miles and excellent records. It won't be easy, but they are out there. Maintenance is DIY and you'll be fine. Stay away from the automatic if you want a manual. The new cars with PDK are awesome, but the stuff you're looking at just have automatic transmissions, and that's no fun in a sports car.
Best of luck!
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 96
From: NJ
As you seem to be interested in a Cab I would suggest you may want to look at a 2008 or later Boxster S. These are good cars and after just a few years depreciate much faster than a 911.
As always, get a PPI.
Good hunting!
As always, get a PPI.
Good hunting!