How to Properly drive a Carrera S?
06-22-2013, 03:02 PM
#16
The 911 animal has significantly changed over the decades. Back in the 1960s and 1970s you had to really go to redline with each upshift in order to stay 'on the cam.' Staying on the cam meant keeping the RPMs in the best operating range of the engine. In those days, that was above 4000 rpm. With displacements of 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, you had to work the gear shift a lot to keep the engine in the optimal working range while driving various road speeds. As the displacement of these engines has increased, so came the torque. With the higher torque, you need not work as hard. The optimal range has broadened--considerably. RARELY did anyone back in the 1970s ever run an engine below 3000 rpms--at any time. Anything below that would result in lugging the engine.
Lacking all of those years of 911 driving, you now face an entirely different animal. This is not a 911--not in the sense that it needs to be driven that way any longer. With 3.8 litres of displacement, the torque generated by this engine is so high that you can easily drop the RPMs below 2000 and accelerate from there without fear of lugging the engine. It's just a whole new engine, and you drive it differently.
Go to the gear charts in the owners' manual. All 911 drivers would pour over that page(s) in their manual when they would first get their cars. They would look to see where the higher RPMs no longer pay off. For example, today's 997 develops peak HP around 6500 RPM as I recall. With even low end torque, there is little need to venture much above 6500 to keep the engine 'on the cam' as we used to drive them. With such a broad even power band you can take it a lot easier. There is less gear shifting needed. However, driving habits (especially with a 911) are hard to change, and I personally drive mine quite aggressively, not fearing to touch 7300 RPM when shifting to 2nd, 3rd, and so on. (Of course, on US streets, we really can't hit redline in 4th without violating someone's sense of what speeds we should be driving these cars at). I have taken mine to redline (7300 RPM) in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th--and gotten pretty close to redline in 6th (all legally on the autobahn). This is a tremendously strong pulling engine, and it likes to be pushed harder. Never fear pushing the engine. Gain the experience of shifting quickly as you approach redline in each gear. Likewise for coming down. Play with it to the point that you know what rpm you can be at before blipping the throttle and downshifting, for a smooth transition matching tranny speed to road speed.
You're fortunate, indeed, to have access to a 6 speed manual transmission Porsche. Some day, all 911s will come only with a PDK transmission and no one will ever know again how to use a car with three pedals.
Lacking all of those years of 911 driving, you now face an entirely different animal. This is not a 911--not in the sense that it needs to be driven that way any longer. With 3.8 litres of displacement, the torque generated by this engine is so high that you can easily drop the RPMs below 2000 and accelerate from there without fear of lugging the engine. It's just a whole new engine, and you drive it differently.
Go to the gear charts in the owners' manual. All 911 drivers would pour over that page(s) in their manual when they would first get their cars. They would look to see where the higher RPMs no longer pay off. For example, today's 997 develops peak HP around 6500 RPM as I recall. With even low end torque, there is little need to venture much above 6500 to keep the engine 'on the cam' as we used to drive them. With such a broad even power band you can take it a lot easier. There is less gear shifting needed. However, driving habits (especially with a 911) are hard to change, and I personally drive mine quite aggressively, not fearing to touch 7300 RPM when shifting to 2nd, 3rd, and so on. (Of course, on US streets, we really can't hit redline in 4th without violating someone's sense of what speeds we should be driving these cars at). I have taken mine to redline (7300 RPM) in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th--and gotten pretty close to redline in 6th (all legally on the autobahn). This is a tremendously strong pulling engine, and it likes to be pushed harder. Never fear pushing the engine. Gain the experience of shifting quickly as you approach redline in each gear. Likewise for coming down. Play with it to the point that you know what rpm you can be at before blipping the throttle and downshifting, for a smooth transition matching tranny speed to road speed.
You're fortunate, indeed, to have access to a 6 speed manual transmission Porsche. Some day, all 911s will come only with a PDK transmission and no one will ever know again how to use a car with three pedals.
Well Said !!!
06-22-2013, 10:07 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Redline is REDLINE for a reason. 7000-8000 rpm every day! Really? Max speed (d/t) is gained by shifting at peak HP (6500 for 997.2 and 6600 997.1 and 7300 997.1 X51). Max acceleration speed x T is shifting at max torque (4400, 4600, & 5500 respectively). It is good to know the rpm at all times but sound and feel are also important elements when driving these awesome cars. Region 2-6 should be avoided at all cost, only over reving because of aggressive track time and by mistake only.
06-22-2013, 11:10 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
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jazz11man1 (07-27-2020)
06-22-2013, 11:34 PM
#19
I know this may sound like silly question. I bought a Carrera S 2006 for a guy with 38,000 miles and it seems he never raised the RPM beyond 4000 RPM!
I have been told by porsche dealer service department that porsche need to be pushed between 5000 to 7000 RPM (right before redline) to run well. Any thoughts on that?
It is my first time owning a Carrera, any general recommendations?
I have been told by porsche dealer service department that porsche need to be pushed between 5000 to 7000 RPM (right before redline) to run well. Any thoughts on that?
It is my first time owning a Carrera, any general recommendations?
1 - yes, I believe these cars are designed for spirited driving, including high-rpm use (presuming you are not abusing the car, speedshifting, missed shifts, overrevs, etc.) Having used several previous sports cars (Porsche's and BMW M3's) both on the street and track several times a year, I can attest to the motors running fine all the way past 80~90K (by which time I am simply ready for another car). As another post pointed out, there is really not much point going way beyond the power peak - usually a few hundred RPM short of redline. I always found these motors a delight to run up thru 4K or so, even in routine street driving.
2 -Now that I have some months on my latest - a PDK version - I have noticed that in Normal mode the Porsche drivetrain engineers have intentionally programmed the shift points to sneak up into higher gears as quickly as possible (for economy reasons). Often, in regular driving around town and on the highway, the revs would never get past 1800~2K. There is so much torque down low in the newer motors, that the car feels entirely comfortable - smooth and quiet - plodding around in "lexus" mode. It truly now has a dual-personality - fun and sporty when you want it (just press the Sport or Sport Plus switch for Mr Hyde's high-rev fun!), or soothingly laid-back (in Normal mode). Evidently, the Porsche engineers have decided that driving their motors at such low revs is fine and dandy - if that's your sort of thing.
The OP referred to a 2006 3.8S - I have to believe this motor is pretty strong at low-revs, and would be fine with either driving style. This is now a personal preference. Of course, it would be missing the point of these cars if you didn't enjoy the high-rpm ranges every now and then!
Drive your car as you feel comfortable. The motor will be fine - just don't abuse it.
- Sanjeev
06-23-2013, 12:05 AM
#20
Drifting
I'm a quarter German so the p-dealer allows me to DIY the plugs, coils, WP, s-belt, etc... JK. You're allowed to service the car anywhere you'd like including your own garage. Just keep all the receipts and logs as proof of work. Here's a list of DIY postings for the 997. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ech-index.html Besides the pleasures of driving these cars I find working on them to have it's own intrinsic rewards... BTW, I DIY'd all of my own maintenance and have had zero issues with my local p-dealer re the factory warranty and/or subsequent CPO.
Re when to shift... although it's viable to shift at lower RPM's I find that the car just shifts that much better in the upper RPM ranges(above 4K). FWIW, here's a white paper by Hartech... http://hartech.org/docs/buyers%20gui...20part%205.pdf Hartech rebuilds numerous Porsche engines out of the UK and the author hypothesizes that one of the issue with the 997.1 engine is that many of his customers typically shift in the lower RPM range since it has more than enough torque to operate in this manner unlike the older gen 911 engines. Shifting in the lower RPM ranges, however, stresses the engine that much more then shifting at the upper ranges. He believes that this is one of the contributing causes of the numerous engine failures and rebuilds he's under taken with cars that were essentially babied their entire life. When you get the 997 try shifting in the upper and lower ranges and determine for yourself what feels right to you. IMHO, these engines are very resilient... I would not hesitate in buying a car that was babied with low miles but I think you know how it should be driven. GL and let us know what you end up with...
Re when to shift... although it's viable to shift at lower RPM's I find that the car just shifts that much better in the upper RPM ranges(above 4K). FWIW, here's a white paper by Hartech... http://hartech.org/docs/buyers%20gui...20part%205.pdf Hartech rebuilds numerous Porsche engines out of the UK and the author hypothesizes that one of the issue with the 997.1 engine is that many of his customers typically shift in the lower RPM range since it has more than enough torque to operate in this manner unlike the older gen 911 engines. Shifting in the lower RPM ranges, however, stresses the engine that much more then shifting at the upper ranges. He believes that this is one of the contributing causes of the numerous engine failures and rebuilds he's under taken with cars that were essentially babied their entire life. When you get the 997 try shifting in the upper and lower ranges and determine for yourself what feels right to you. IMHO, these engines are very resilient... I would not hesitate in buying a car that was babied with low miles but I think you know how it should be driven. GL and let us know what you end up with...
06-23-2013, 02:37 PM
#24
Race Director
I know this may sound like silly question. I bought a Carrera S 2006 for a guy with 38,000 miles and it seems he never raised the RPM beyond 4000 RPM!
I have been told by porsche dealer service department that porsche need to be pushed between 5000 to 7000 RPM (right before redline) to run well. Any thoughts on that?
It is my first time owning a Carrera, any general recommendations?
I have been told by porsche dealer service department that porsche need to be pushed between 5000 to 7000 RPM (right before redline) to run well. Any thoughts on that?
It is my first time owning a Carrera, any general recommendations?
There is no need to push the engine to 5K or higher other than to derive some extra enjoyment from your car. These engines pull very impressively right up to red line and under certain circumstances this experience is quite pleasurable. I mean if you like cars at all.
But you can elect to keep rpms down some if you want. It is your car. There is no harm to this and in fact higher engine speeds can subject the engine to more wear though this wear is very very low as many drive their cars in such a way to run the engine rpms quite a bit higher on a frequent basis and the engines suffer no apparent degradation.
However, be aware that it is beneficial that the engine be brought up to temperature and kept there for a while.
Short trips, too short for the engine and its 400+ lbs of metal and approx. 2 gallons of oil and 4 gallons of coolant to get up to temperature results in engine oil contamination (unburned gas and water) build up which reduces the oil's ability to do its job properly. This can lead to accelerated wear no matter at what rpms you run the engine.
So try to throw in an extended drive -- 30 minutes or longer -- once in a while and consider changing the oil/filter more often. Also, be sure to run a top tier gasoline to help keep engine deposits down.
If you do elect to experience the upper rpm ranges of the engine always be sure you have driven the car long enough the engine is fully up to temperature and has been for a while. These engines can take 10 or more minutes -- even on mild days -- to get fully up to temperature.
But if you want to keep rpms low but not so low as to lug the engine there's no real harm in that.
I would have to question why you bought a Porsche though.
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jlert (02-14-2023)
06-23-2013, 05:45 PM
#25
I bought my first Corvette new in 1963 I hit near red line every time I had a chance for 15 years 120,000 miles. I have had 4 more Vette's since and treated them the same. My first Porsche a 996 cab was treated the same 12 years later and 50,000 miles I traded it in for a 2012 997 S Cab. All the rest were stick this one is a PDK wonderful. Same treatment although it gets harder to do on crowded city streets so sometimes I just head out of town a ways to give it a workout.
These are strong cars you are not going to hurt them easily.
These are strong cars you are not going to hurt them easily.
Last edited by SteveFromMN; 06-23-2013 at 05:51 PM. Reason: change
06-23-2013, 09:06 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Found best rpm shift point to be a nick shy of 4k for normal driving. There is a nice raspy but mellow engine note here. Don't even look at the dial anymore. As others said, the engine pulls hard for a very long time. Shift just after 6.5k for fast driving, leaving margin as to not hit the limiter. SSK makes things easier for sure.
It's taken awhile to acclimate to higher rpm shifts. I grew up on manuals in Ireland and high gear running was prized for economy. Drivers there are quite skillful, as rarely you'd see brake lights going down the mountains. Wish I could get the 997 on those roads.
It's taken awhile to acclimate to higher rpm shifts. I grew up on manuals in Ireland and high gear running was prized for economy. Drivers there are quite skillful, as rarely you'd see brake lights going down the mountains. Wish I could get the 997 on those roads.
Last edited by cvtbenhogan; 06-24-2013 at 12:13 AM.
06-23-2013, 09:47 PM
#27
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There was a post somewhere about a driver at a PDE asking something along the lines of "what RPM should I be at going into turn 2"...........the answer given by the instructor was ...."that is what the redline is for" !!!
That explains it all.This was on a track but the same applies.
That explains it all.This was on a track but the same applies.
06-24-2013, 01:52 AM
#28
Poseur
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06-24-2013, 02:01 AM
#29
FWIW, here's a white paper by Hartech... http://hartech.org/docs/buyers%20gui...20part%205.pdf Hartech rebuilds numerous Porsche engines out of the UK and the author hypothesizes that one of the issue with the 997.1 engine is that many of his customers typically shift in the lower RPM range since it has more than enough torque to operate in this manner unlike the older gen 911 engines.
02-18-2017, 03:16 AM
#30
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Has anyone saved the article from Hartech
By any chance saved that article from Hartect re 997 driving , the link it's no longer working :
http://hartech.org/docs/buyers%20guide%20web%20format%20Jan%202012%20part%205.pdf
thank you
2011 C4S
http://hartech.org/docs/buyers%20guide%20web%20format%20Jan%202012%20part%205.pdf
thank you
2011 C4S
Last edited by Ron777; 02-18-2017 at 03:17 AM. Reason: Typo