Mod - FVD Oil Pan plus Baffles
06-17-2014, 12:27 PM
#32
Drifting
Thread Starter
Yes... it's an '08 C2S. I believe that FVD builds these kits in batches and ran out of current builds for the Carrera S. I was fortunate enough to get one of their initial factory builds. Contact Rhonda at FVD if you're interested and let her know that you're an active RL member for any discounts they may have for the next build run. FWIW, I've had the FVD pan and baffle installed since FEB last year. No issues/leaks to date. From a design perspective I like the fact that the FVD pan is made of a single billeted aluminum piece(one bead of sealant) unlike other pan kits where an extension sleeve is used/sandwiched between the engine block and the pan(2 beads of sealant for the pan and the sleeve = twice the opportunity for leaks). KISS principle.
Last edited by USMC_DS1; 06-17-2014 at 10:42 PM.
06-17-2014, 10:38 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
^^
+1 on Rhonda & FVD. They're a few miles from my home and have a great reputation locally and nationally. Her customer service is excellent and has been for years.
+1 on Rhonda & FVD. They're a few miles from my home and have a great reputation locally and nationally. Her customer service is excellent and has been for years.
06-18-2014, 03:22 PM
#34
I put her up on jackstands to inspect for any leaks around the new oil pan. While I was under there I tried on the Porsche skid plate for size. Good news... it fits.
Here's a straight on view from the back end. This revealed that my long race piped headers actually hang down lower(~0.5"-0.75" lower) than the FVD oil pan.
Attachment 706209Attachment 706210
Even though the FVD pan is thicker than the stock pan by ~0.5" the skid plate still fits snugly up against it. So it is possible to install the Porsche skid plate over the FVD oil pan.
Attachment 706211Attachment 706212Attachment 706213
Re downsides to the baffle pan... well there's the added expense of an addition quart of oil with each oil change. Small price considering the benefits. The thicker pan will hang lower than the stock pan by ~0.5" so that could potentially present a lower profile/point of impact under the car. In my case, the headers are my lowest potential POI beneath the car. Plus the FVD pan looks much more capable of surviving a fit then the thin stock pan. Lastly, the skid plate is already lower than either pans should you wish to use it for extra protection... BTW, I would leave the skid plate off for at least a week after installation of the FVD pan so that you can inspect it for any oil leaks. GL with the mod and enjoy the ride.
Here's a straight on view from the back end. This revealed that my long race piped headers actually hang down lower(~0.5"-0.75" lower) than the FVD oil pan.
Attachment 706209Attachment 706210
Even though the FVD pan is thicker than the stock pan by ~0.5" the skid plate still fits snugly up against it. So it is possible to install the Porsche skid plate over the FVD oil pan.
Attachment 706211Attachment 706212Attachment 706213
Re downsides to the baffle pan... well there's the added expense of an addition quart of oil with each oil change. Small price considering the benefits. The thicker pan will hang lower than the stock pan by ~0.5" so that could potentially present a lower profile/point of impact under the car. In my case, the headers are my lowest potential POI beneath the car. Plus the FVD pan looks much more capable of surviving a fit then the thin stock pan. Lastly, the skid plate is already lower than either pans should you wish to use it for extra protection... BTW, I would leave the skid plate off for at least a week after installation of the FVD pan so that you can inspect it for any oil leaks. GL with the mod and enjoy the ride.
The spec for the sealant is a 1.5mm bead, not 1/4 inch.
07-21-2014, 05:54 PM
#35
Show me the oil pressure data!
OK, so the FVD pan looks really pretty and well built. Seems that the baffle 'holes' are a little bit higher than the stock baffle, so one could argue that it would make more oil volume transfer away from the pickup a little more difficult.
It's sold as the "solution" to the oil starvation problem, yet no one seems to have a scrap of oil pressure data to show what's actually going on inside the sump during track pressures?
In fact, none of the companies selling solutions (Mantis, LN) seem to have any data on hand, yet will tell you that race teams say the part fixed the issue - a race built car will have oil pressure monitoring among other measurement gadgetry. Product design is reliant on data to tell you whether or not the design is a success or a failure.
Why is that? Why omit the most important part of info that would ensure your sale?
FVD are known for racing Porsche's and know these cars as well as Porsche. Surely when a part is designed for a specific problem (oil starvation induced catastrophic engine failure in MY97 engines across all Boxster, Cayman and Carrera cars excluding GT3/TT), there has to be data collected to support the claim? Yet no one has it? Or perhaps the data if shared would not help sales? That would seem to be the logical reason?
I want to believe like all of you that this is the "solution", but I'm also a realist and before taking the risk of having a $20K+ engine repair bill, I'd like to see real world oil pressure data showing stock vs FVD on a track, with a stock MY97 engine without other aids such as accusump or after market additional oil scavengers.
Wishful thinking will not go far when the engine pukes it's guts out and it's due to starvation.
Rhonda, we can handle the truth! Share it with us, if the data shows clearly that it makes enough difference to resolve the issue then everyone would buy FVD - no brainer!
Its either the "solution' or its not.
Continuing to state that since it's based on Porsche's X51 design and that Porsche knows what they are doing isn't answering the question at hand. Building the engine like this in $100K+ 'race-bred' sports cars questions whether Porsche know what they are doing!! Of course adding the additional scavengers would have cost a few extra bucks, but that would have eaten into profit, and they cleverly cover themselves in the owner manual (car not designed for track use).
Show us the data!!!
It's sold as the "solution" to the oil starvation problem, yet no one seems to have a scrap of oil pressure data to show what's actually going on inside the sump during track pressures?
In fact, none of the companies selling solutions (Mantis, LN) seem to have any data on hand, yet will tell you that race teams say the part fixed the issue - a race built car will have oil pressure monitoring among other measurement gadgetry. Product design is reliant on data to tell you whether or not the design is a success or a failure.
Why is that? Why omit the most important part of info that would ensure your sale?
FVD are known for racing Porsche's and know these cars as well as Porsche. Surely when a part is designed for a specific problem (oil starvation induced catastrophic engine failure in MY97 engines across all Boxster, Cayman and Carrera cars excluding GT3/TT), there has to be data collected to support the claim? Yet no one has it? Or perhaps the data if shared would not help sales? That would seem to be the logical reason?
I want to believe like all of you that this is the "solution", but I'm also a realist and before taking the risk of having a $20K+ engine repair bill, I'd like to see real world oil pressure data showing stock vs FVD on a track, with a stock MY97 engine without other aids such as accusump or after market additional oil scavengers.
Wishful thinking will not go far when the engine pukes it's guts out and it's due to starvation.
Rhonda, we can handle the truth! Share it with us, if the data shows clearly that it makes enough difference to resolve the issue then everyone would buy FVD - no brainer!
Its either the "solution' or its not.
Continuing to state that since it's based on Porsche's X51 design and that Porsche knows what they are doing isn't answering the question at hand. Building the engine like this in $100K+ 'race-bred' sports cars questions whether Porsche know what they are doing!! Of course adding the additional scavengers would have cost a few extra bucks, but that would have eaten into profit, and they cleverly cover themselves in the owner manual (car not designed for track use).
Show us the data!!!
07-21-2014, 07:04 PM
#36
Pro
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oakville Ontario Canada
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Sump Extension
Some or all of the sump makers have just copied mantissport sump designs,so no data. The latest Mantis design is far superior, even tested by BodyMotion. Releasing of Data, may happen with Mantis data, If I can find it.
08-02-2014, 03:33 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Now there is some practical data. Nice one Ernie!
What purpose does the thin aluminum sandwich plate serve in the Mantis oil pan? This looks to be the best all around solution to my eyes.
What purpose does the thin aluminum sandwich plate serve in the Mantis oil pan? This looks to be the best all around solution to my eyes.
10-08-2015, 11:32 PM
#41
Drifting
The horizontal baffle ,yes, horizontal -is essential.
It stops the oil 'climbing' the walls of the sump. Many of the old baffle+deep sump products did not use a horizontal baffle effectively. Therefore they were useless at preventing oil starvation in high G turns.
We've debated/discussed this before. There is no significant downside to a horizontal baffle.
There is a Porsche video showing a simulation of the g-forces on an engine going around Nurburgring .
I replaced the sump bolts with custom length s/s studs . Loctite(blue) the studs into the crankcase. The studs have an internal hex drive in the 'head' so you can position them correctly. Thereafter, sump plate removal is easy. Sealer removal is still a chore.
This is not the exact product but gives you the concept.Works well for exhaust manifold also:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-968-...19c029&vxp=mtr
It stops the oil 'climbing' the walls of the sump. Many of the old baffle+deep sump products did not use a horizontal baffle effectively. Therefore they were useless at preventing oil starvation in high G turns.
We've debated/discussed this before. There is no significant downside to a horizontal baffle.
There is a Porsche video showing a simulation of the g-forces on an engine going around Nurburgring .
This is not the exact product but gives you the concept.Works well for exhaust manifold also:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-968-...19c029&vxp=mtr
10-08-2015, 11:39 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
I wish they would sell these again that would be really awesome.
12-09-2015, 02:37 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
Any update on FVD oil pan for 997.1S / 3.8L?
I'll try and call Rhonda tomorrow...
I'll try and call Rhonda tomorrow...
12-09-2015, 06:16 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
While I am a big fan of FVD I can't say enough good things about the Mantis Sport pan. No dip in oil pressure even on NT01. Always available too: http://www.mantissport.ca/Products/P...t/Default.aspx
12-09-2015, 12:21 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
While I am a big fan of FVD I can't say enough good things about the Mantis Sport pan. No dip in oil pressure even on NT01. Always available too: http://www.mantissport.ca/Products/P...t/Default.aspx
As a practical matter, I'm at PASM ride height on my non-PASM car, and the ground clearance on the +1.25L "sport" pan is good if you're careful, even on Chicago's cluster-bombed-runway, frost-heave-ridden roads.