I am driving myself, and the wife, crazy. Yet another what to buy thread.
10-04-2012, 04:08 PM
#16
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After enjoying your C2S for a while you will begin to lust for a GTS or Turbo. You will find yourself scouring auto trader and ebay. You will drive slowly and gaze as you pass the Porsche dealership. If you can afford the better faster car and you are already wanting it, just get the one you really want.
10-05-2012, 12:43 AM
#17
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Thanks for all of the input. I think I have narrowed it down to either the '11 C2 GTS or an '09 turbo, both CPO and about the same money. I found the '09 listed after posting the thread last night and it seems to address some of the concerns about the non-warranty turbo and the "old" electronics. It is also in a color that both my wife and I love, Aqua Blue.
As far as a F car instead, while I would love to, my boyhood dream has been a 911. That combined with the desire to take the kids on at least sort trips leads me back to the 911. My 5 year old shares your opinion though. He is likely to be the one to have the Ferrari in the family.
On the question of paying off the house first, the money coming in would easily cover the mortgage and the car. My adviser and I are playing the game of trying to predict whether we can beat the relatively low interest rate combined with the tax deduction in the market. The though of living debt free is appealing but not necessarily the best choice financially. similarly, I am looking at financing the car out at a very low rate ~1.49% instead of paying cash for the same reason. The money to pay it off will be there but hopefully making more than the nominal cost of the interest.
Thank you all so much for indulging me. Your input is appreciated. I will be sure to post pics of the winner...
Derek
As far as a F car instead, while I would love to, my boyhood dream has been a 911. That combined with the desire to take the kids on at least sort trips leads me back to the 911. My 5 year old shares your opinion though. He is likely to be the one to have the Ferrari in the family.
On the question of paying off the house first, the money coming in would easily cover the mortgage and the car. My adviser and I are playing the game of trying to predict whether we can beat the relatively low interest rate combined with the tax deduction in the market. The though of living debt free is appealing but not necessarily the best choice financially. similarly, I am looking at financing the car out at a very low rate ~1.49% instead of paying cash for the same reason. The money to pay it off will be there but hopefully making more than the nominal cost of the interest.
Thank you all so much for indulging me. Your input is appreciated. I will be sure to post pics of the winner...
Derek
10-05-2012, 01:01 AM
#18
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Add another vote for the GT3. After reading your original post it was the first thought that came to my mind. Visceral, 911 while maintaining some amenities.
10-05-2012, 01:07 AM
#19
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You're on the right track. As an old-timer here who has been following Porsches since the early 1970s my recommendation is to buy the 997 GTS. The GT3 is simply impractical for the road. With roads the way they are in America you will soon be kicking yourself for buying something that will loosen your fillings every time you drag it out. In time you will drag it out less and less. (Bad). The GTS is going to be the rarer car. The car is the pinnacle development of the 997. That means that they learned from the MY05 cars through to the MY11 cars and all of those lessons learned were tucked into the GTS. They were listening to their customers. People wanted the tossability of a 2WD car, but with the looks of the wide rear end. That's the GTS. The Turbo will neither appeal to you acoustically nor in the 'feel' department.
I will have to depart the Porsche topic with an example that will lead you to my recommendation. I've been a snow skier since I was 4 years old. I consider myself a world class snow skier. I have recommended for years that when it comes to equipment, the best investment that you can make is the boots. And the boots need to be comfortable--first and foremost. Do not be misled by brand names, or a particular model's position in that companies' lineup, e.g., top of the line. ALWAYS go for what fits and feels the best. Walk around in them for 30 minutes--in each pair. Buy them BLIND--not influenced by the brand name nor the market position. Go by feel.
Porsche offers literally dozens of models of the 911. Without resorting to driving them all suffice it to say you can go with either the simpler or the more complex. The more complex carry more weight, and also more complexity. They offer more horsepower, but it does come at a price. Many prefer the simplicity of the 2WD cars because that's what a 911 always was--a rear engined, rear driven car. Porsche resorted to AWD when too many turbo owners were wrapping themselves around trees because they weren't good enough drivers to handle the complexity of 40% up front, and 60% in back (weight distribution). The turbo, being the fancy top of the model line (sorta kinda) appeals to those who want to make a statement--look at me, I drive a TURBO. Then, there are the knowledgeable enthusiasts who buy a 911--rear engine, rear drive only. But they benefit by a wide rear end to keep that end planted. Again, go by the FEEL and not by some marketing scheme.
Try not to be tempted by the power of a turbo. It's really nice to have over 400PS available at the drop of a hat, but it comes at a price. The price is reduced feel. There is so much dampening going on, and so much weight being tossed around there, that the package is unlike the traditional 911 characteristics of rear engine-drive.
Many have felt the need for owning a Ferrari at least once in their lives. However, they are wholly impracticable, and today's volatile market can leave you holding the bag. You can't really enjoy a Ferrari because you won't be able to really drive the thing and put miles on it without jeopardizing the residual value of it. Mileage eats up value in a Ferrari--sadly. If you want to actually DRIVE a sports car and not be thinking about money flying out of the tail pipe--you buy a Porsche.
Buy the Porsche that will give you the most driving satisfaction. The poseurs out there are not really enjoying their Porsche ownership. It's all about being seen in their top of the line 997 Turbo, but the true enjoyment of driving is lost for them. Acoustically, they are severely dampened. You can barely hear the engine. You might as well be driving a souped up Prius. The sound from a 911 (normally aspirated) is the way to go.
With a large amount of cash coming in take advantage of using it for critical stuff. Since there is little advantage in the investment market today (and things are VERY speculative right now until November if you get my drift) it is better to put the money into something tangible like paying off or down your primary home and then putting it into something that you will actually use and enjoy. The 911 will be something that you can enjoy as well as use with your 5-year old--a little bonding time. The 5-year old won't be 5 for long. Enjoy that time while you can. Do what you can now before the IRS grabs more in 2013.
I will have to depart the Porsche topic with an example that will lead you to my recommendation. I've been a snow skier since I was 4 years old. I consider myself a world class snow skier. I have recommended for years that when it comes to equipment, the best investment that you can make is the boots. And the boots need to be comfortable--first and foremost. Do not be misled by brand names, or a particular model's position in that companies' lineup, e.g., top of the line. ALWAYS go for what fits and feels the best. Walk around in them for 30 minutes--in each pair. Buy them BLIND--not influenced by the brand name nor the market position. Go by feel.
Porsche offers literally dozens of models of the 911. Without resorting to driving them all suffice it to say you can go with either the simpler or the more complex. The more complex carry more weight, and also more complexity. They offer more horsepower, but it does come at a price. Many prefer the simplicity of the 2WD cars because that's what a 911 always was--a rear engined, rear driven car. Porsche resorted to AWD when too many turbo owners were wrapping themselves around trees because they weren't good enough drivers to handle the complexity of 40% up front, and 60% in back (weight distribution). The turbo, being the fancy top of the model line (sorta kinda) appeals to those who want to make a statement--look at me, I drive a TURBO. Then, there are the knowledgeable enthusiasts who buy a 911--rear engine, rear drive only. But they benefit by a wide rear end to keep that end planted. Again, go by the FEEL and not by some marketing scheme.
Try not to be tempted by the power of a turbo. It's really nice to have over 400PS available at the drop of a hat, but it comes at a price. The price is reduced feel. There is so much dampening going on, and so much weight being tossed around there, that the package is unlike the traditional 911 characteristics of rear engine-drive.
Many have felt the need for owning a Ferrari at least once in their lives. However, they are wholly impracticable, and today's volatile market can leave you holding the bag. You can't really enjoy a Ferrari because you won't be able to really drive the thing and put miles on it without jeopardizing the residual value of it. Mileage eats up value in a Ferrari--sadly. If you want to actually DRIVE a sports car and not be thinking about money flying out of the tail pipe--you buy a Porsche.
Buy the Porsche that will give you the most driving satisfaction. The poseurs out there are not really enjoying their Porsche ownership. It's all about being seen in their top of the line 997 Turbo, but the true enjoyment of driving is lost for them. Acoustically, they are severely dampened. You can barely hear the engine. You might as well be driving a souped up Prius. The sound from a 911 (normally aspirated) is the way to go.
With a large amount of cash coming in take advantage of using it for critical stuff. Since there is little advantage in the investment market today (and things are VERY speculative right now until November if you get my drift) it is better to put the money into something tangible like paying off or down your primary home and then putting it into something that you will actually use and enjoy. The 911 will be something that you can enjoy as well as use with your 5-year old--a little bonding time. The 5-year old won't be 5 for long. Enjoy that time while you can. Do what you can now before the IRS grabs more in 2013.
10-05-2012, 01:28 AM
#20
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Great post Dan. I agree 100% on both the Porsche and ski boot assessments!
Let me put it this way... I drive a RWD C2S CAB in Park City Utah as my DD! (Is that nuts or what?) The AWD Porsches - though great - are less special to me because they lack the old tail-wagging 911 charm... Truthfully, I ENJOY driving my RWD 911 in a blizzard. It is a bit more on edge, but it is so rewarding...
Test drive the GTS and the Turbo and let us know what you think. As Dan aptly stated, the GTS is a more "old school" 911. But I do understand the amazing draw of boost.... Nothing like it.
-B
Let me put it this way... I drive a RWD C2S CAB in Park City Utah as my DD! (Is that nuts or what?) The AWD Porsches - though great - are less special to me because they lack the old tail-wagging 911 charm... Truthfully, I ENJOY driving my RWD 911 in a blizzard. It is a bit more on edge, but it is so rewarding...
Test drive the GTS and the Turbo and let us know what you think. As Dan aptly stated, the GTS is a more "old school" 911. But I do understand the amazing draw of boost.... Nothing like it.
-B
10-05-2012, 02:03 AM
#21
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You're on the right track. As an old-timer here who has been following Porsches since the early 1970s my recommendation is to buy the 997 GTS. The GT3 is simply impractical for the road. With roads the way they are in America you will soon be kicking yourself for buying something that will loosen your fillings every time you drag it out.
10-05-2012, 09:07 AM
#22
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I will have to depart the Porsche topic with an example that will lead you to my recommendation. I've been a snow skier since I was 4 years old. I consider myself a world class snow skier. I have recommended for years that when it comes to equipment, the best investment that you can make is the boots. And the boots need to be comfortable--first and foremost. Do not be misled by brand names, or a particular model's position in that companies' lineup, e.g., top of the line. ALWAYS go for what fits and feels the best. Walk around in them for 30 minutes--in each pair. Buy them BLIND--not influenced by the brand name nor the market position. Go by feel.
The lack of "good" noise from the turbo I tested was /is a concern. The C4 GTS was much better in that regard. I did enjoy how that car drove but I will need to drive the 2 and 4 back to back with enough spirit to feel the difference. Good task for the weekend.
Thanks for the advice.
10-05-2012, 10:51 AM
#24
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Hidden turbo envy?
You're on the right track...
..The turbo, being the fancy top of the model line (sorta kinda) appeals to those who want to make a statement--look at me, I drive a TURBO. Then, there are the knowledgeable enthusiasts who buy a 911--rear engine, rear drive only. But they benefit by a wide rear end to keep that end planted. Again, go by the FEEL and not by some marketing scheme.
Try not to be tempted by the power of a turbo. It's really nice to have over 400PS available at the drop of a hat, but it comes at a price. The price is reduced feel. There is so much dampening going on, and so much weight being tossed around there, that the package is unlike the traditional 911 characteristics of rear engine-drive...
... It's all about being seen in their top of the line 997 Turbo, but the true enjoyment of driving is lost for them. Acoustically, they are severely dampened. You can barely hear the engine. You might as well be driving a souped up Prius. The sound from a 911 (normally aspirated) is the way to go...
..The turbo, being the fancy top of the model line (sorta kinda) appeals to those who want to make a statement--look at me, I drive a TURBO. Then, there are the knowledgeable enthusiasts who buy a 911--rear engine, rear drive only. But they benefit by a wide rear end to keep that end planted. Again, go by the FEEL and not by some marketing scheme.
Try not to be tempted by the power of a turbo. It's really nice to have over 400PS available at the drop of a hat, but it comes at a price. The price is reduced feel. There is so much dampening going on, and so much weight being tossed around there, that the package is unlike the traditional 911 characteristics of rear engine-drive...
... It's all about being seen in their top of the line 997 Turbo, but the true enjoyment of driving is lost for them. Acoustically, they are severely dampened. You can barely hear the engine. You might as well be driving a souped up Prius. The sound from a 911 (normally aspirated) is the way to go...
(Could your post be a case of hidden 'turbo envy'? Hmm...)
So as my son jokingly says to me when I get on a rant, "shut up old man".
I do agree with your ski boot analogy, but even those often need to be modded with a hair dryer to fit the individual user.
To the OP, go and drive these cars and you'll soon find the one that 'yanks yer soul'. We're spitting hairs here. They are all great cars and we are truly blessed to be driving them and sitting on this forum having this discussion. Things could be worse. A modded Prius?
Joel
Last edited by Zeus993; 10-07-2012 at 02:10 PM.
10-05-2012, 11:55 AM
#25
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I'd get the 2wd GTS. Awesome choice. 408HP, plenty quick and a little raw as it should be for a weekend toy. If this was your DD, i'd get the turbo. The GTS will be more tossable, put a grin on your face at lower speed and has PSE already. Plus a nice wide azz! GL.
10-05-2012, 11:21 PM
#27
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IMHO, get the two-wheel drive. Standard transmission. Put off the paddle-shifters, PDK until you are ready for a wheelchair OR you are stuck in heavy traffic each day. I can't see fully understanding the Porsche "experience" starting out with an automatic trans. Of course, I love lots of foreplay.
My best Porsche so far was an '06 Carrera S. My Twin Turbo was great, but too civilized......might as well get a big, solid, fast Mercedes.
I now have a low miles, CPO one owner 997 GT3 which is what has evolved into MY idea of the ideal Porsche. It is loaded, but basic where it counts.
When floored, it quickly screams like a panther in the night. Which I hear with some frequency in my part of the world.
Democracy has wrought some nice choices, ehhhh???
Oh, and don't even think about purchasing new. Let the fat cats eat the depreciation, then pick up a low-miles CPO after a few years at 2/3 the price.
My best Porsche so far was an '06 Carrera S. My Twin Turbo was great, but too civilized......might as well get a big, solid, fast Mercedes.
I now have a low miles, CPO one owner 997 GT3 which is what has evolved into MY idea of the ideal Porsche. It is loaded, but basic where it counts.
When floored, it quickly screams like a panther in the night. Which I hear with some frequency in my part of the world.
Democracy has wrought some nice choices, ehhhh???
Oh, and don't even think about purchasing new. Let the fat cats eat the depreciation, then pick up a low-miles CPO after a few years at 2/3 the price.
Last edited by Datura; 10-05-2012 at 11:35 PM. Reason: clarification
10-06-2012, 09:27 PM
#28
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Hey, Derek---
I just finished the "reverse search" of yours. I have a 997.2 C2S that the I love, and modded it to be pretty much like a GTS (improved air intake, exhaust, ECU, etc)...that I've been putting 20-25K miles on annually (even in Michigan winters)!
So I decided that I need a great second car, AWD, daily-driver type car. I really wanted to love the new (F10) 535 or 550xi.....but I didn't....so then I thought about buying the previous model (yours), CPO. Great car.... Then I tried the new A6. Nope... as expected, I never liked the Audi ride. Anyway, I finally found exactly what I was looking for....the new Lexus GS350 F-Sport AWD...
Now I have my perfect combo. In a few years-- maybe when my 997.2 approaches 100K miles, I'll move into the 991! Lol
(Btw, I didn't look at the Panamera because I didn't want the price to get ridiculous).
I
I just finished the "reverse search" of yours. I have a 997.2 C2S that the I love, and modded it to be pretty much like a GTS (improved air intake, exhaust, ECU, etc)...that I've been putting 20-25K miles on annually (even in Michigan winters)!
So I decided that I need a great second car, AWD, daily-driver type car. I really wanted to love the new (F10) 535 or 550xi.....but I didn't....so then I thought about buying the previous model (yours), CPO. Great car.... Then I tried the new A6. Nope... as expected, I never liked the Audi ride. Anyway, I finally found exactly what I was looking for....the new Lexus GS350 F-Sport AWD...
Now I have my perfect combo. In a few years-- maybe when my 997.2 approaches 100K miles, I'll move into the 991! Lol
(Btw, I didn't look at the Panamera because I didn't want the price to get ridiculous).
I
10-07-2012, 02:23 AM
#30
Race Car
Porsche resorted to AWD when too many turbo owners were wrapping themselves around trees because they weren't good enough drivers to handle the complexity of 40% up front, and 60% in back (weight distribution). The turbo, being the fancy top of the model line (sorta kinda) appeals to those who want to make a statement--look at me, I drive a TURBO. Then, there are the knowledgeable enthusiasts who buy a 911--rear engine, rear drive only. But they benefit by a wide rear end to keep that end planted. Again, go by the FEEL and not by some marketing scheme.
Now i'm no world class skier so excuse my ignorance. Isn't the 993/996/997 Turbo a car that took the 959 supercar technology and brought it into production? How then does the Turbo not have race heritage or pedigree or as you say made for people who cannot drive??