alexb76

Increased light output does NOT help in fog, it makes it worse!

I think it was a business decision more than an engineering one.

Mike in CA

It's not as much about output, as it is about how the light is dispersed and aimed. The dispersion pattern is so tightly controlled with the Bi-Xenons that high scatter which can be a problem with normal headlights is mostly eliminated. The light is already aimed low and wide which is what you want in fog. As I already pointed out, I have Bi-Xenons and fogs on my Cayenne S. The fogs are superfluous to the point where I can hardly tell when they are turned on.

No doubt Porsche saved cost (and weight) by eliminating the fogs on the Carrera although they kept them on other models that didn't have standard Bi-Xenons, like the Cayenne. If being cheap was their only consideration, they'd have eliminated them across the board, IMO.

PCC

I agree !!

GreggT

I don't
Going back at least to Litonics on 993TT.....Zuffenhausens been **** on lighting.
I can only imagine the money spent on that 991 lamp housing.
But I could be wrong.

Mike in CA

You're not wrong.

PCC

Yeah .. he's correct because you say he's correct. There are many cars with zenon headlights that have Fogs. Even the TT has fogs. Please explain to me why if you're so well informed

Mike in CA

Hey, no need to get snippy. I'll bet we can discuss this without getting personal.

Most cars don't come standard with Xenon headlights, so I suspect that fogs are included in the base model for people who don't order that upgrade. I can't speak to every model or manufacturer out there.

But look at Porsche. The Cayenne doesn't come standard with Xenons; it has fog lights. The Cayman doesn't have standard Xenons, it has fog lights. The new Boxster S comes standard with Xenons; no fog lights. Same for the Panamera, the 991 and 997.2; standard Xenons, no fog lights. Contrary to your assertion, the current TT has standard Xenons and it does not come with front fog lights either. According to the Porsche web site, seperate auxillary light modules in the front apron contain LED daytime running lights, LED sidelights and turn signal indicators, not fogs.

I find it hard to believe that Porsche is just trying to save a buck on a close to $200K Turbo S or Panamera Turbo S by eliminating "vital" fog lights. You, OTOH, are free to believe whatever you like. You're entiltled to your opinion and, BTW, I can say when I think someone else is correct if I choose.

USMC_DS1

So what exactly are those LED looking things on the 997.2? are those LED lights or just reflectors below the headlights where the fog lights are on the 997.1? I wonder if you could swap them out for the the 997.1 fog lights. Does anyone know if they are interchangeable. Just curious.

Mike in CA

This is the description of the LED lights from the 2009 Tech Introduction for the 997.2. The 6 LED DRL is on when selected in the menu and the headlights are off. When the headlights are on, the 6 LEDs go out and the 1 LED light guide lights up. I doubt this module would be easily interchangeable with the previous fog lights.

The newly designed front light modules are located above the side air intakes. They are arranged horizontally and include the LED daytime driving lights and the position light as well as the direction indicator lights. They each have two high-performance bulbs that offer a distinctive light signal and a long service life.

The LED daytime driving lights and position light integrated in the front light module are a brand new technical and stylistic feature of the new 911 models. The LED daytime driving lights are designed as 6 LEDs and replace the previous fog lights. The position light has 1 LED with a light guide.

USMC_DS1

Having LED's for DRL is a good thing. LED's tend to last much longer then Xenon lights and cost less to replace right? Re the lack of a proper fog light setup... I still think it's beneficial to have proper fog lights. Too bad they didn't incorporate both LED DRL's and fog lights into that design...

Edgy01

When Porsche developed the 997 much of it was based upon the 996. Save the introduction of Bi-Xenons. When the 997 came out in MY05 the S models all came with Bi-Xenons and the fog lights helps with some filling in the near field. However, in time, Porsche came to feel that the fog lights were unnecessary, or redundant. At times, I was able to use the fog lights or driving lights instead of the bi-xenons, particularly on really foggy drives. At least the 'driving lights' could push out some light for low speed driving in fog. As the 997.2 evolved into something with LED lights upfront they dropped the fog lights, feeling that coupled with the now standard Bi-Xenon (across the 991 line) they felt that the fogs were unnecessary. The LEDs look really cool, but are virtually useless for driving by. Their output is nil. As many others did, I switched to the front and read LEDs but unfortunately lost the ability to drive with just the driving lights on (leaving off the Bi-Xenons.)

As DRLs the LEDs are perfect--but for the foggy driving scenario, they are useless.

The only thing in common between the 997.1 and 997.2 is the retention of rear fog light(s). For serious fog situations they will save your life.

82_930

Do you say that after drinking too much also? Not trying to provoke anyone here, trust me, but sometimes leaving the car behind is a better idea. If you can't see where you are going leaving the car in a parking lot is cheaper than a car accident. I also agree, however, that the car should have fog lights being that it is a problem.

wwest

That halogen is only on in highbeam mode, only make matters WORSE.

wwest

For many years now, with the exception (mostly) of european models, fog lights are ONLY enabled along with low beams. I first noticed this with Japanese models, and then it seemed to migrate to US models. I can't tell you how many models I have modified over the last 20 or so years so fogs could be operated independent of low beams for myself and friends.

First, the actual use for fogs is actually few and far between, even here in the NW. Most state laws REQUIRE that main beams be used 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes prior to sunrise. Having fog lights on during those periods serves no purpose other than BLING.

And having low beams (or high) on along with fogs simply defeats the purpose.

So, since the general public, ALL, seemed to have accepted this new method of the use of fogs along with low beams the manufacturer's are correct in ellimating them entirely.

FYI...fog light beam patterns are intentionally LOW and WIDE and are only really viable a the low speeds cognizant with the foggy condition.

PS: Regardless of the law I have driven many miles at night on foggy conditions, SLOWLY, with only the fog lights illuminated, SAFETY matters.

alexb76

This whole discussion is moot, the OP STATED he *misses* his fogs on previous car, and the new car b-xenons do not do as a good job... and like everyone's trying to justify WHY that's not the case?! Give me a break!

Fogs in general are not that critical, so a business decision was made to keep a cleaner front DRL light with 997.2 and that's just fine.