Engine Knocking sound and Alarm Issues on a 997.2
08-29-2012, 08:31 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Engine Knocking sound and Alarm Issues on a 997.2
Like all the experts take on these issues I've encountered with my recently acquired CPO 997.2 C2 car..
1.) Once the car's been driven (warmed up) around an hour or so I notice a "knocking" sound from the engine everytime car comes to deceleration exactly at the 1000-900 RPM range. From time to time it is very obvious and other times it is subtle (all depending on what speed I'm slowing down from). Does not sound normal, yet the dealer said this is innate' to the PDK system shifting gears. It's with them now where they are rebuilding/updating the PDK..hopefull this sound goes away but I wanted to get everyone's take.
2.) My alarm inside compartment and glove box triggers werent working and also the Central Locking settings at Type 3 (auto door lock when in drive, or at 3-6mph) were not holding the settings after the dealer tried to program them. Where it stands now, for the alarm, none of the trigger points (doors as well now, glovebox, etc) work.
In addition the "auto-lock" feature is not holding the memory based on how the dealer has been setting it (doors dont auto lock)
All in all, the service advisor has been horrible, gave me no updates, and when I call to find a status update he has no answer. The car has been in service for 4 days now and they said they still haven't figured out what's wrong with the alarm..When asked about the PDK fix status he also said, "it's a PDK..it is what it is"--what a welcome to my first Porsche service experience right?
((This is Porsche of Stevens Creek fyi))
-Any thoughts guys? and it doesnt help having a crappy service department from my local dealership
1.) Once the car's been driven (warmed up) around an hour or so I notice a "knocking" sound from the engine everytime car comes to deceleration exactly at the 1000-900 RPM range. From time to time it is very obvious and other times it is subtle (all depending on what speed I'm slowing down from). Does not sound normal, yet the dealer said this is innate' to the PDK system shifting gears. It's with them now where they are rebuilding/updating the PDK..hopefull this sound goes away but I wanted to get everyone's take.
2.) My alarm inside compartment and glove box triggers werent working and also the Central Locking settings at Type 3 (auto door lock when in drive, or at 3-6mph) were not holding the settings after the dealer tried to program them. Where it stands now, for the alarm, none of the trigger points (doors as well now, glovebox, etc) work.
In addition the "auto-lock" feature is not holding the memory based on how the dealer has been setting it (doors dont auto lock)
All in all, the service advisor has been horrible, gave me no updates, and when I call to find a status update he has no answer. The car has been in service for 4 days now and they said they still haven't figured out what's wrong with the alarm..When asked about the PDK fix status he also said, "it's a PDK..it is what it is"--what a welcome to my first Porsche service experience right?
((This is Porsche of Stevens Creek fyi))
-Any thoughts guys? and it doesnt help having a crappy service department from my local dealership
08-29-2012, 09:32 PM
#2
My 2009 C2S was at the dealer for a week with the PDK and ended up being Control Module. I do seen to be having some other issue's which I have informed them. When coming to a stop when it hits first I have a very noticible jerk which I never did before and have had a couple times where it would't change gears and would over rev! As to your noise I have never heard that at all! Maybe mention the control module to them since my dealer had to check with the factory numerous times tryiong to figure out the cure.
08-29-2012, 10:53 PM
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
My 2009 C2S was at the dealer for a week with the PDK and ended up being Control Module. I do seen to be having some other issue's which I have informed them. When coming to a stop when it hits first I have a very noticible jerk which I never did before and have had a couple times where it would't change gears and would over rev! As to your noise I have never heard that at all! Maybe mention the control module to them since my dealer had to check with the factory numerous times tryiong to figure out the cure.
It's rather frustrating that they do nothing to find the solution or to provide an accurate answer to my issues, yet they give excuses after excuse that it's a problem due to the way the car is made (initially, even saying the 09' PDK is made more rougher than the 2012- that's not even an apples to apples comparison)
08-30-2012, 12:13 AM
#5
Pro
Thread Starter
The level of the sound varies..at the extreme side it's more like a "thud" you'd normally hear from a car with a rear trunk having something like a 2x4 hit against something inside the trunk. On the lower side it can be barely noticeable, but one can difinitely tell it's the same noise origin from the same source as they appear at the same 1000-900 RPM range each time at deceleration (except the dealer who claims it's due to the 09' PDK which they said is normal, to them that is).
Fingers crossed that after all this time away,. when I get it back the issues are fixed...
08-30-2012, 01:42 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
As the PDK shifts from 2-1 you can get a sort of 'thud'. It is more noticeable in sport mode or when cold. I had it in my orginal PDK on my '11' GTS and also have it in my new replacement PDK. Mine was replaced for a leak found by the dealer. Porsche of the Village in Cincinnati does a great job on my car.
I can't help on the setups not holding in memory. Is there another dealer nearby?
I can't help on the setups not holding in memory. Is there another dealer nearby?
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08-30-2012, 01:50 PM
#8
Went out this morning to pick up my clothes from the dry cleaners without the stereo blasting and I do hear a thud from 2nd to 1st. I also have noticed that taking off at a stoplight the car has some hesitation unless I give it a good amount of gas pedal.
08-30-2012, 02:00 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Thanks H'702-
The level of the sound varies..at the extreme side it's more like a "thud" you'd normally hear from a car with a rear trunk having something like a 2x4 hit against something inside the trunk. On the lower side it can be barely noticeable, but one can difinitely tell it's the same noise origin from the same source as they appear at the same 1000-900 RPM range each time at deceleration (except the dealer who claims it's due to the 09' PDK which they said is normal, to them that is).
Fingers crossed that after all this time away,. when I get it back the issues are fixed...
The level of the sound varies..at the extreme side it's more like a "thud" you'd normally hear from a car with a rear trunk having something like a 2x4 hit against something inside the trunk. On the lower side it can be barely noticeable, but one can difinitely tell it's the same noise origin from the same source as they appear at the same 1000-900 RPM range each time at deceleration (except the dealer who claims it's due to the 09' PDK which they said is normal, to them that is).
Fingers crossed that after all this time away,. when I get it back the issues are fixed...
08-30-2012, 02:09 PM
#10
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Funny
My wife's 2008 BMW 328xi when in sport mode, makes a thud sound when it's shifting from 2nd to first gear while decelerating. I know different transmission etc..... but I thought it was interesting that my wife's car is doing the same thing as some of the 997's with PDK.....
08-30-2012, 02:59 PM
#11
Drifting
Seems that PDK is still a fairly new service item to the average p-dealer. Those forum members with PDK mechanical issues have typically seen p-dealers swap the whole thing out and send the old unit back to the factory. The factory may, of course, be trying to get some sample units from the field to determine root cause, failure analysis, create field service right ups, etc... or it could just be that PDK is so complex that it has become a factory serviceable only item. Keep us posted as we'd all like to know the final outcome. Makes me wonder if this is more than just an issue of that's how it normally works as the p-dealer seems to be holding on to it for several days now... do you know if they're communicating with the factory? If so then what's the factory saying? You may want to ask to test drive a newer PDK car... like another 2010 or 2011 to see if they behave the same way. My local p-dealer put me thru all sorts of run around re a loose steering column... tried to convince me that it was normal and that I needed a wheel alignment. Here's the write up JIC you're interested... https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...free-play.html
08-30-2012, 09:33 PM
#12
Just save all your work ticket copies in case your knocking sound turns into something ugly like a broken transmission. Love the " they all do it " excuse . See if you can get 'em to put that on the repair ticket. 
08-30-2012, 11:06 PM
#13
I usually drive mine in manual
08-31-2012, 12:20 AM
#14
Pro
Thread Starter
Everyone, first and foremost as always, thanks for chiming in and sharing with me your insights and most valued experiences..
Hope the following does not strain your eyes but I like to be as thorough as possible so the extent of this saga can be shared with everyone here and outcome of the PDK issue I had in addition to Central Locking issue associated with the alarm can be of benefit to anyone now or in the future as an fyi.
The strangest thing to start the day out was I received the call from the service advisor at 0830 in the morning saying my car is done. As of yesterday at
1530 (330pm), he informed me it would not be ready until Friday evening (per the tech) -they're 48 hours ahead of schedule!...This further shows that there is obviously a disconnect and transparency on what was going on -in the advisor's lack of communication with their technicians, in addition to his lack of knowledge from the get go, and poor customer service providing an illegitimate excuse for every problem I initially reported when first bringing in the car without following up on my complaints...(sometimes I wonder how these guys get their job and keep them?) I really try to give everyone a benefit of the doubt and this guy just didnt cut it!!
I was quite pissy about the whole situation (with the advisor) to be honest with you all, however at all times I kept my cool and in no way displayed any anger or conduct which may have been perceived or used against me as a "difficult customer". After all, my car was already in the shop and at their mercy mechanically and physically....
I made sure over the phone with the advisor that all my complaints have been addressed and solved, of course he half-wittedly said yes, yes, yes to everything. Once at the dealer I asked to speak directly with the tech who worked on my car and did not even bother hearing a word the advisor had to say. The technician was totally cool, being patient and receptive to my follow up questions when I asked about what was done to correct my issues and where things stand with it to date. **THE Key finding here I just learned for this specific dealer, is interact directly with the technician..all the techs in the garage were actually quite cool guys(the issue was the advisor from start to finish). {I never had this type of service advisor issue with any other car's I've owned}
So based on my conversation with the tech and final service write up- seems like on day 1 they attempted to reprogram DME and PDK which failed and continued to fail on subsequent attempts to reset and reprogramming. They could not access the DME via terminal 30 reset, with disconnecting battery and drainage capacitors (these are excerpts from service writeup)...they still couldnt connect with PDK control unit up to this point after numerous attempts.
-Finally they replaced PDK Control Unit with updated part and coded vehicle for latest software version T082, also performed PDK calibration and road tested.
--My experience with the knocking sound were noticed at all engine temperatures cold and hot (more so after the car was driven over an hour)there were times it occurred on every deceleration at 1000-900RPM drop from 2nd to 1st gear, and other times it didnt occur or only made the sound very 'faintly' ((to Adias' question on my braking type' each time the knocking sound came about at deceleration: this happened across all braking ranges- progressively and at hard brakes as I tested this)) . ~Dealer's technical notes were that noise caused by "PDK changing shift forks" (obviously, they didnt put down the "they all do it" excuse).
--As of today when I got the car back post PDK Control Unit update..the gears seem to be shifting very smoothly compared to before (something like a non PDK car that just had the tranny fluid change). The tech did advise me that give the new PDK 100miles or so to adapt to my driving and adjust..(we'll see on this). From the dealer home and in between driving to a few errand stops
(20 total miles or so), I no longer noticed the knocking sound and the one time I heard it at the same 1000-900RPM range, it was "very very" faint. Perhaps the deed has been done and issue rectified (fingers crossed) or it's because I did not get to drive it longer and at various distances and speeds yet that it's too soon to confirm the problem with the knocking sound is gone definitively...stay tuned guys I will keep you posted on this if anything further good or bad comes out of the PDK change*. (Btw Hakaida702- there hasn't been any "hesitation" noticed at stop light take off before or after the PDK work done in my case..car picks up fine at all gas petal forces).
-On to the Central Locking and alarm trigger issues: as of last week the car's (problem A.) glove compartment and inside compartment monitoring would not set off the alarm. After I brought it to them, the door triggers in addition, no longer set off the alarm / (problem B.) I had asked them to set my auto-lock feature to Type 3. (doors lock at engine start or lock at speed over 3-5mph if any door is opened)- tech at the time programmed it and the settings would not hold the coding, notes were that "coding was being loss as key is cycled"
=They checked all coding and VIN info inside PASS Control Unit- came back okay. *Per service notes: Tech then communicated with PTEC whom sent him video and extended log of PIWIS2 steps to set key settings along with pictures of coding reset. Per Ptec, tech wrote coding to individual memory and set auto-lock in PCM options. Noted key specific settings overriden to PCM setting.
**I don't quite follow all that and too much of what the tech explained to me, but all that matters is the auto-lock at Type 3 setting works now, and the alarm works when it is active (i.e.when glove compartment is opened and when doors opened).
+++ However, the "inside compartment monitoring" doesnt seem to work correctly. Once the alarm is armed and when I move around inside the car, the dome lights come on and there are "two short chirps" then the lights go out and nothing happens. If I read the manual correctly, this is indicative of a faulted alarm zone--which means the inside compartment trigger still does not work?? (I'm going to save this issue for another service visit date..not worth the drama just coming in for this one)
Overall, summary of the story is I had a really poor service advisor- lack of customer service skills, no knowledge of the issues at hand, didnt care to communicate with the tech to find out the issue at hand..he was good for nothing sad to say.
If it were not for a lot of things I learned from you all here and on 6Speed, I would not have been able to ask informed' questions thereby challenging the service rep and tech to further diagnose and fix these issues which they earlier dismissed as "normal, they all do it and sound like that". Essentially, if I was just any other naive dummy I'd walk in and back home from the dealer last Friday within two hours and believed them everything was okay and nothing would have been done on my car!!
I cannot thank everyone here enough, you guys rock! (hope you made it this far in my essay of a report btw,
)
Hope the following does not strain your eyes but I like to be as thorough as possible so the extent of this saga can be shared with everyone here and outcome of the PDK issue I had in addition to Central Locking issue associated with the alarm can be of benefit to anyone now or in the future as an fyi.
The strangest thing to start the day out was I received the call from the service advisor at 0830 in the morning saying my car is done. As of yesterday at
1530 (330pm), he informed me it would not be ready until Friday evening (per the tech) -they're 48 hours ahead of schedule!...This further shows that there is obviously a disconnect and transparency on what was going on -in the advisor's lack of communication with their technicians, in addition to his lack of knowledge from the get go, and poor customer service providing an illegitimate excuse for every problem I initially reported when first bringing in the car without following up on my complaints...(sometimes I wonder how these guys get their job and keep them?) I really try to give everyone a benefit of the doubt and this guy just didnt cut it!!
I was quite pissy about the whole situation (with the advisor) to be honest with you all, however at all times I kept my cool and in no way displayed any anger or conduct which may have been perceived or used against me as a "difficult customer". After all, my car was already in the shop and at their mercy mechanically and physically....
I made sure over the phone with the advisor that all my complaints have been addressed and solved, of course he half-wittedly said yes, yes, yes to everything. Once at the dealer I asked to speak directly with the tech who worked on my car and did not even bother hearing a word the advisor had to say. The technician was totally cool, being patient and receptive to my follow up questions when I asked about what was done to correct my issues and where things stand with it to date. **THE Key finding here I just learned for this specific dealer, is interact directly with the technician..all the techs in the garage were actually quite cool guys(the issue was the advisor from start to finish). {I never had this type of service advisor issue with any other car's I've owned}
So based on my conversation with the tech and final service write up- seems like on day 1 they attempted to reprogram DME and PDK which failed and continued to fail on subsequent attempts to reset and reprogramming. They could not access the DME via terminal 30 reset, with disconnecting battery and drainage capacitors (these are excerpts from service writeup)...they still couldnt connect with PDK control unit up to this point after numerous attempts.
-Finally they replaced PDK Control Unit with updated part and coded vehicle for latest software version T082, also performed PDK calibration and road tested.
--My experience with the knocking sound were noticed at all engine temperatures cold and hot (more so after the car was driven over an hour)there were times it occurred on every deceleration at 1000-900RPM drop from 2nd to 1st gear, and other times it didnt occur or only made the sound very 'faintly' ((to Adias' question on my braking type' each time the knocking sound came about at deceleration: this happened across all braking ranges- progressively and at hard brakes as I tested this)) . ~Dealer's technical notes were that noise caused by "PDK changing shift forks" (obviously, they didnt put down the "they all do it" excuse).
--As of today when I got the car back post PDK Control Unit update..the gears seem to be shifting very smoothly compared to before (something like a non PDK car that just had the tranny fluid change). The tech did advise me that give the new PDK 100miles or so to adapt to my driving and adjust..(we'll see on this). From the dealer home and in between driving to a few errand stops
(20 total miles or so), I no longer noticed the knocking sound and the one time I heard it at the same 1000-900RPM range, it was "very very" faint. Perhaps the deed has been done and issue rectified (fingers crossed) or it's because I did not get to drive it longer and at various distances and speeds yet that it's too soon to confirm the problem with the knocking sound is gone definitively...stay tuned guys I will keep you posted on this if anything further good or bad comes out of the PDK change*. (Btw Hakaida702- there hasn't been any "hesitation" noticed at stop light take off before or after the PDK work done in my case..car picks up fine at all gas petal forces).
-On to the Central Locking and alarm trigger issues: as of last week the car's (problem A.) glove compartment and inside compartment monitoring would not set off the alarm. After I brought it to them, the door triggers in addition, no longer set off the alarm / (problem B.) I had asked them to set my auto-lock feature to Type 3. (doors lock at engine start or lock at speed over 3-5mph if any door is opened)- tech at the time programmed it and the settings would not hold the coding, notes were that "coding was being loss as key is cycled"
=They checked all coding and VIN info inside PASS Control Unit- came back okay. *Per service notes: Tech then communicated with PTEC whom sent him video and extended log of PIWIS2 steps to set key settings along with pictures of coding reset. Per Ptec, tech wrote coding to individual memory and set auto-lock in PCM options. Noted key specific settings overriden to PCM setting.
**I don't quite follow all that and too much of what the tech explained to me, but all that matters is the auto-lock at Type 3 setting works now, and the alarm works when it is active (i.e.when glove compartment is opened and when doors opened).
+++ However, the "inside compartment monitoring" doesnt seem to work correctly. Once the alarm is armed and when I move around inside the car, the dome lights come on and there are "two short chirps" then the lights go out and nothing happens. If I read the manual correctly, this is indicative of a faulted alarm zone--which means the inside compartment trigger still does not work?? (I'm going to save this issue for another service visit date..not worth the drama just coming in for this one)
Overall, summary of the story is I had a really poor service advisor- lack of customer service skills, no knowledge of the issues at hand, didnt care to communicate with the tech to find out the issue at hand..he was good for nothing sad to say.
If it were not for a lot of things I learned from you all here and on 6Speed, I would not have been able to ask informed' questions thereby challenging the service rep and tech to further diagnose and fix these issues which they earlier dismissed as "normal, they all do it and sound like that". Essentially, if I was just any other naive dummy I'd walk in and back home from the dealer last Friday within two hours and believed them everything was okay and nothing would have been done on my car!! I cannot thank everyone here enough, you guys rock! (hope you made it this far in my essay of a report btw,
)
08-31-2012, 12:37 AM
#15
Good to hear that all of your problems were fixed. Now I have to figure out why my car hesitates off the line. It could be that I'm not giving it enough gas. I don't like to take off too hard and have people thinking I'm a pcar dbag driver. Once I get moving, pdk and the engine runs smoothly and I haven't pushed it yet as I'm still under 2,000 miles. But I have a '11 so I would think I have the pdk update.