997 Extreme Handling - ADias
04-24-2012, 07:14 PM
#16
Instructor
Hi Matty. I'm no driving god but I live in mountain country so have plenty of empty twisting roads to practise on. The sensation you are looking for is one of the car being conveyed around the bend as if from behind by a massive claw. The key is to make smooth inputs of steering wheel and throttle.
Start by entering a bend at about 30 mph with no braking inputs and keep a steady throttle to get the feel of traction at the back pushing the car through the corner. Then steadily increase your approach speed applying increasing brake force before the bend as approach speed increases with each new attempt. Brake late and feather lightly off the brakes as you turn in to the corner, moving onto a moderate throttle before the apex and progressively increasing throttle out of the apex. Smooth inputs at all times.
These exercises will help you find the sweet spots of weight transfer to the front (trail braking) to dial out understeer and then back to the rear (by accelerating) to create traction at the driven wheels. Small changes can make a big difference so practice makes perfect. 30 years should do it...
HTH
Start by entering a bend at about 30 mph with no braking inputs and keep a steady throttle to get the feel of traction at the back pushing the car through the corner. Then steadily increase your approach speed applying increasing brake force before the bend as approach speed increases with each new attempt. Brake late and feather lightly off the brakes as you turn in to the corner, moving onto a moderate throttle before the apex and progressively increasing throttle out of the apex. Smooth inputs at all times.
These exercises will help you find the sweet spots of weight transfer to the front (trail braking) to dial out understeer and then back to the rear (by accelerating) to create traction at the driven wheels. Small changes can make a big difference so practice makes perfect. 30 years should do it...
HTH
04-25-2012, 12:17 AM
#17
Everything else is basically the same. Turn-in slightly on the brakes, begin to unwind the steering and let the momentum of the engine mass help to turn the car. Get back on the power to glue down the back end and rocket out of the corner. All one smooth motion. You can also try steering the car with the throttle while in a corner. Under cornering load at full throttle at around 40mph in third, smoothly back off the gas. The car will fall onto the front wheels and your line will tighten quite dramatically. Get back to the power and the line will open up again. Don't completely release the gas pedal, smoothly back off the pressure and re-apply so you remain in control the whole time. You can use the same technique to improve the turning performance of the car through an S bend or a chicane.
All of this is from the track. Be careful on the public roads.
04-25-2012, 06:12 AM
#18
My 4S experiences quite a lot of understeer coming out of the faster corners under full power. It feels like I have to wait longer to get back to the power than the rear drive 911s, otherwise I won't make the corner and will have to back off. To work around this I sometimes turn in later and turn slightly tighter to get a straighter shot out of the corner. In the tight, medium speed sections (approx. 45 mph) I can feel the front wheels tugging at the steering and I think the 4S has some advantage here.
Everything else is basically the same. Turn-in slightly on the brakes, begin to unwind the steering and let the momentum of the engine mass help to turn the car. Get back on the power to glue down the back end and rocket out of the corner. All one smooth motion. You can also try steering the car with the throttle while in a corner. Under cornering load at full throttle at around 40mph in third, smoothly back off the gas. The car will fall onto the front wheels and your line will tighten quite dramatically. Get back to the power and the line will open up again. Don't completely release the gas pedal, smoothly back off the pressure and re-apply so you remain in control the whole time. You can use the same technique to improve the turning performance of the car through an S bend or a chicane.
All of this is from the track. Be careful on the public roads.
Everything else is basically the same. Turn-in slightly on the brakes, begin to unwind the steering and let the momentum of the engine mass help to turn the car. Get back on the power to glue down the back end and rocket out of the corner. All one smooth motion. You can also try steering the car with the throttle while in a corner. Under cornering load at full throttle at around 40mph in third, smoothly back off the gas. The car will fall onto the front wheels and your line will tighten quite dramatically. Get back to the power and the line will open up again. Don't completely release the gas pedal, smoothly back off the pressure and re-apply so you remain in control the whole time. You can use the same technique to improve the turning performance of the car through an S bend or a chicane.
All of this is from the track. Be careful on the public roads.
Gently lifting to counter understeer works on all 911s. On old ones, anything other than a gentle lift can induce snap oversteer. Largely not an issue with the 997 though.
As noted above, the 4wd will pull the car effectively through a moderate radius bend but tends to understeer on tighter radii where the wheel is being asked to do two jobs at once.
As for weight transfer, the mass of the transmission on the 4wd should reduce the need for braking to load up the front wheels, so aiding turn-in. But the fundamental principles remain the same. There is still a lot more weight over the back end.
As others have noted: Smoothness above all else makes for best progress.
04-25-2012, 09:03 AM
#19
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An excellent opportunity to practice the effects of braking/steering inputs under load would be at an autocross. Threshold braking, rotation, throttle steering are skills that can be learned/refined at such an event. Better yet are some of the AX schools that some SCCA Regions or PCA Regions sponsor thoughout the year.
Joe
Joe
04-25-2012, 10:33 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Just found this while searching for definitions of 'trail braking' etc... Looks good.
www.trackpedia.com
www.trackpedia.com
04-25-2012, 01:23 PM
#21
Race Director
An excellent opportunity to practice the effects of braking/steering inputs under load would be at an autocross. Threshold braking, rotation, throttle steering are skills that can be learned/refined at such an event. Better yet are some of the AX schools that some SCCA Regions or PCA Regions sponsor thoughout the year.
Joe
Joe
04-26-2012, 11:03 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
A skidpad exercise is also great at experiencing throttle steering as well as under steering , over steering and maneuvers to deal with these occurrences Porsche club DS or PSDS.
04-27-2012, 12:47 AM
#23
GT3 player par excellence
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WAY TOO MUCH talking.
a good drive drives with his butt.
u just got to go do it.
when i first started 911, counter steer, throttle steer, dont lift. whatever. made no sense.
you do it wrong a few times, you will figure it out VERY FAST.
steer into the turn when you slide, i have no idea what it meant. i just kept on driving. suddenly one day, i slid, and my hands and butt naturally turns certain way, and guess what that's counter steering.you can't explain these things. you have to feel it.
a good drive drives with his butt.
u just got to go do it.
when i first started 911, counter steer, throttle steer, dont lift. whatever. made no sense.
you do it wrong a few times, you will figure it out VERY FAST.
steer into the turn when you slide, i have no idea what it meant. i just kept on driving. suddenly one day, i slid, and my hands and butt naturally turns certain way, and guess what that's counter steering.you can't explain these things. you have to feel it.
