Are there differences between 991 PDK & 997.2 PDK?
#16
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I have driven both and I find no difference. There is perhaps a different engagement feel, which actually varies from car to car, and that engagement feel is a software decision of no consequence. I have driven both the 991S and the 997.2S PDK (both with full SC).
What makes a 'feel' difference is the auditory track of the Symposer - psychoacoustics, which conveys the intake modulation produced during a shift. That auditory stimulus is there in the cabin in the 991, whereas in a 997 it is outside the car.
Besides... PDK gearboxes are fully clutched gearboxes like manuals, therefore once engaged, they play no role in performance feelings - it's either engaged or disengaged.
What makes a 'feel' difference is the auditory track of the Symposer - psychoacoustics, which conveys the intake modulation produced during a shift. That auditory stimulus is there in the cabin in the 991, whereas in a 997 it is outside the car.
Besides... PDK gearboxes are fully clutched gearboxes like manuals, therefore once engaged, they play no role in performance feelings - it's either engaged or disengaged.
#17
I had a 911 manual gearbox And remember Porsche dealer saying to me that when i tried the PDK I would want one....he was right. After 2009, 90% 911 sales were PDK. Nothing compared to sales tiptronic vs manual before 2009.
Its a really amazing gearbox.
Its a really amazing gearbox.
#18
Instructor
I looove my 2012 997 GTS. I will admit, however, that it is taking a little time to become accustomed to the PDK having been a manual transmission Porsche driver until 2 mos ago. The downshifts when using the paddles are a little off in that they are rough if not careful..and delayed requiring more braking than I'm used to if the transmission is set to shift itself. The shift up from first to second with the paddles in M takes a little too long. When I allow the transmission to shift itself I find that I'm always in a higher gear (perhaps for fuel efficiency settings) that I want to be under the driving conditions at the time. It certainly is a smart and efficient transmission. It takes some of the work (and fun) out of driving. She hunkers down and gets the work done when needed. But I feel it needs a few tweaks. I've heard, word of mouth, that software adjustments may be available to adress some of these issues. Staying tuned.
#19
Former Vendor
PDK
It took me a while to find this post but I felt it necessary to update the community with my experience. I earlier stated how rough my 997.2S PDK was shifting in comparison to my 991S.
As Adias suggested I took the car to Champion and told them about what I was experiencing as far as how the shifting felt. I got the car back and it feel EXCELLENT. The shifts are significantly smoother and faster. The PDK system was updated and recalibrated. I also had a recall on the fuel pump which was taken care of.
If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't of known. Thanks.
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bmanjohns (09-14-2022)
#21
Rennlist Member
Just tested a new 991s w/ PDK and in comparison to my '10 997.2 PDK it was almost identical in "normal" automatic mode. In advanced automatic modes again, almost identical - meaning I really could not tell the difference. In manual modes I found a slight difference in favor of 991, but it may have been really paddles (991) versus buttons (mine) as I found the paddles were faster to execute my desired shift. My 991 opinionated conclusion (only the PDK portion) is both work about equally well when properly calibrated.
#22
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I looove my 2012 997 GTS. I will admit, however, that it is taking a little time to become accustomed to the PDK having been a manual transmission Porsche driver until 2 mos ago. The downshifts when using the paddles are a little off in that they are rough if not careful..and delayed requiring more braking than I'm used to if the transmission is set to shift itself. The shift up from first to second with the paddles in M takes a little too long. When I allow the transmission to shift itself I find that I'm always in a higher gear (perhaps for fuel efficiency settings) that I want to be under the driving conditions at the time. It certainly is a smart and efficient transmission. It takes some of the work (and fun) out of driving. She hunkers down and gets the work done when needed. But I feel it needs a few tweaks. I've heard, word of mouth, that software adjustments may be available to adress some of these issues. Staying tuned.
I couldn't agree more. I also love my 2012 4GTS and I'm working on becoming accustomed to the PDK after 3.5 years of my manual. That said, it's getting better every day. I felt sort of lost the first few weeks going between the paddles and automatic but now I pretty much leave the car in manual and shift with the shifter, as opposed to the paddles. I find that it feels very close to the manual in terms of familiarity of where my hands go, but with increased responsiveness (and obviously, not having to use my left foot). I'm getting to the point where it's the perfect balance of what made the manual so much fun but also benefitting from the PDK technology and faster shifts...so I'm a big fan!
#23
Rennlist Member
After a lot of years driving 3-pedal Porsches, I bought a GTS with PDK 16 months ago.
I found the adjustment (from manual to PDK) to be pretty easy, and I got used to the new set-up quickly.
Even though I have the paddle shifters, I, too, find myself manually shifting mostly with the gear-shift lever.
Now, if all manufacturers (or even all German car makers) would just settle on one way to operate these "manumatic" gear boxes. My DD MINI Cooper S operates exactly the opposite (pull to upshift, push to downshift) of the GTS .
Makes me have to think too much.
I found the adjustment (from manual to PDK) to be pretty easy, and I got used to the new set-up quickly.
Even though I have the paddle shifters, I, too, find myself manually shifting mostly with the gear-shift lever.
Now, if all manufacturers (or even all German car makers) would just settle on one way to operate these "manumatic" gear boxes. My DD MINI Cooper S operates exactly the opposite (pull to upshift, push to downshift) of the GTS .
Makes me have to think too much.
Last edited by Leader; 05-11-2012 at 09:30 PM.
#25
Race Director
The weight difference between a PDK and MT car used to be 66 lbs. It's now 45 lbs. Maybe the new 7 speed is heavier than the old 6 speed but, performance differences aside, I think the new PDK is also lighter than the old.
#26
Nordschleife Master
The sales manager at my local dealer went on and on about how much better 991 PDK is than the outgoing 997.2 PDK. Funny, he didn't want to go into specifics. Does anyone know what, if anything, has changed with software or hardware in the 991 implementation? Did a quick search and didn't see anything on this particular topic - apologies if I missed something.
the shifts are faster, more abrupt, the downshifts have more gas blip, the vehicle no longer has that "torque converter" feel, as if the clutch is "being feathered".. it's more all on or all off like a manual trans..
car/trans feels great, yes the ferrari system is still better but the pdk is def a very close #2 in the world of double clutch transmissions..
if i can find the articles, i will link em.. but from personal experience the 991 pdk is def more raw and "automated manual" than before where it felt like a fast shifting tiptronic.
#27
Nordschleife Master
After a lot of years driving 3-pedal Porsches, I bought a GTS with PDK 16 months ago.
I found the adjustment (from manual to PDK) to be pretty easy, and I got used to the new set-up quickly.
Even though I have the paddle shifters, I, too, find myself manually shifting mostly with the gear-shift lever.
Now, if all manufacturers (or even all German car makers) would just settle on one way to operate these "manumatic" gear boxes. My DD MINI Cooper S operates exactly the opposite (pull to upshift, push to downshift) of the GTS .
Makes me have to think too much.
I found the adjustment (from manual to PDK) to be pretty easy, and I got used to the new set-up quickly.
Even though I have the paddle shifters, I, too, find myself manually shifting mostly with the gear-shift lever.
Now, if all manufacturers (or even all German car makers) would just settle on one way to operate these "manumatic" gear boxes. My DD MINI Cooper S operates exactly the opposite (pull to upshift, push to downshift) of the GTS .
Makes me have to think too much.
#28
Nordschleife Master
Just tested a new 991s w/ PDK and in comparison to my '10 997.2 PDK it was almost identical in "normal" automatic mode. In advanced automatic modes again, almost identical - meaning I really could not tell the difference. In manual modes I found a slight difference in favor of 991, but it may have been really paddles (991) versus buttons (mine) as I found the paddles were faster to execute my desired shift. My 991 opinionated conclusion (only the PDK portion) is both work about equally well when properly calibrated.
#29
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coming from a 997.2 PDK owner to a current 991 PDK owner, the changes are vast... its surely software related but i think/feel the ratio's are changed as well...
the shifts are faster, more abrupt, the downshifts have more gas blip, the vehicle no longer has that "torque converter" feel, as if the clutch is "being feathered".. it's more all on or all off like a manual trans..
car/trans feels great, yes the ferrari system is still better but the pdk is def a very close #2 in the world of double clutch transmissions..
if i can find the articles, i will link em.. but from personal experience the 991 pdk is def more raw and "automated manual" than before where it felt like a fast shifting tiptronic.
the shifts are faster, more abrupt, the downshifts have more gas blip, the vehicle no longer has that "torque converter" feel, as if the clutch is "being feathered".. it's more all on or all off like a manual trans..
car/trans feels great, yes the ferrari system is still better but the pdk is def a very close #2 in the world of double clutch transmissions..
if i can find the articles, i will link em.. but from personal experience the 991 pdk is def more raw and "automated manual" than before where it felt like a fast shifting tiptronic.
#30
Nordschleife Master
coming from a 997.2 PDK owner to a current 991 PDK owner, the changes are vast... its surely software related but i think/feel the ratio's are changed as well...
the shifts are faster, more abrupt, the downshifts have more gas blip, the vehicle no longer has that "torque converter" feel, as if the clutch is "being feathered".. it's more all on or all off like a manual trans..
car/trans feels great, yes the ferrari system is still better but the pdk is def a very close #2 in the world of double clutch transmissions..
if i can find the articles, i will link em.. but from personal experience the 991 pdk is def more raw and "automated manual" than before where it felt like a fast shifting tiptronic.
the shifts are faster, more abrupt, the downshifts have more gas blip, the vehicle no longer has that "torque converter" feel, as if the clutch is "being feathered".. it's more all on or all off like a manual trans..
car/trans feels great, yes the ferrari system is still better but the pdk is def a very close #2 in the world of double clutch transmissions..
if i can find the articles, i will link em.. but from personal experience the 991 pdk is def more raw and "automated manual" than before where it felt like a fast shifting tiptronic.