Heavier oil to protect IMS?
03-19-2012, 04:53 PM
#16
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See, this is the problem when mechanics try to pontificate as if they were engineers. Mechanic=trained Engineer=educated. Big difference.
03-19-2012, 04:55 PM
#17
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That's still higher than I paid at Lordco. I know that every now and again there are auto shops that have sales. Anybody know of any going on right now?
Last edited by Zeus993; 03-19-2012 at 05:22 PM.
03-19-2012, 05:04 PM
#18
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On another note, he said if you got pre-2005 model with old bearing, it IS going to fail sooner or later and recommended folks to just bite the bullet, do a $2000 IMS upgrade and prevent a $20K damage, however he said for post-2006 cars the failure is so low (none he's seen in our city), that just by using good oil and right maintenance it should be fine for the life of the car.
That's not to say that people shouldn't do an IMS upgrade, especially if it helps them sleep better at night, but it's a bit of fear mongering to suggest that the engine that powers a number of Consumer Reports most reliable cars, including the Boxster which came out on top of all other cars for the last decade, is a ticking time bomb.
03-19-2012, 05:23 PM
#19
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All engines will fail "sooner or later." For ~99% of the M96/M97s out there, it seems to be "later."
That's not to say that people shouldn't do an IMS upgrade, especially if it helps them sleep better at night, but it's a bit of fear mongering to suggest that the engine that powers a number of Consumer Reports most reliable cars, including the Boxster which came out on top of all other cars for the last decade, is a ticking time bomb.
That's not to say that people shouldn't do an IMS upgrade, especially if it helps them sleep better at night, but it's a bit of fear mongering to suggest that the engine that powers a number of Consumer Reports most reliable cars, including the Boxster which came out on top of all other cars for the last decade, is a ticking time bomb.
03-19-2012, 08:28 PM
#20
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All engines will fail "sooner or later." For ~99% of the M96/M97s out there, it seems to be "later."
That's not to say that people shouldn't do an IMS upgrade, especially if it helps them sleep better at night, but it's a bit of fear mongering to suggest that the engine that powers a number of Consumer Reports most reliable cars, including the Boxster which came out on top of all other cars for the last decade, is a ticking time bomb.
That's not to say that people shouldn't do an IMS upgrade, especially if it helps them sleep better at night, but it's a bit of fear mongering to suggest that the engine that powers a number of Consumer Reports most reliable cars, including the Boxster which came out on top of all other cars for the last decade, is a ticking time bomb.
So, I guess the advice is, if your clutch is close to need replacement, might as well do both, as clutch labour is pretty much covered while upgrading IMS. He also said, if you replace clutch early, you have a chance to save the flywheel from replacement and save around a $1000.
03-19-2012, 08:43 PM
#22
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I just bought an '05 997 and had it gone over by the local specialty shop. They told me that everything was in great shape and that I need not worry about the IMS issues. That initially gave me "warm, fuzzy" feelings. However, after reading many posts on this subject I am not sure. On one hand the clutch is in good shape and I don't want to fork out $2k if it is not needed. On the other hand, I really do not like to think about the cost that would be incurred by an IMS failure.
As far as the oil weight question, my father was an auto mechanic as well as a jet engine mechanic in the USAF. Back in the day when I was wrenching on muscle cars he swore by Castrol 20w50. As I progressed into more modern cars I never thought about changing oil weights. After all if the 20w50 was good in a 400hp small block chevy then it had to be good in a modern 250hp 6 cylinder right? Well, he explained it this way (and I think it makes sense,) the older engines were made with looser tolerances. With modern (computer controlled) lathes and milling machines the tolerances in an engine are now much tighter. A gap that might have been 0.01" to 0.02" in an older engines can be held to 0.002" or tighter now. The thicker, higher viscosity oils cannot flow through these tiny gaps as well as the thinner, lower viscosity oils can. Therefore you need to use the thinner, lower viscosity oils in modern engines.
Please, correct me if I am wrong but this is the way I have understood it to work for some time now.
As far as the oil weight question, my father was an auto mechanic as well as a jet engine mechanic in the USAF. Back in the day when I was wrenching on muscle cars he swore by Castrol 20w50. As I progressed into more modern cars I never thought about changing oil weights. After all if the 20w50 was good in a 400hp small block chevy then it had to be good in a modern 250hp 6 cylinder right? Well, he explained it this way (and I think it makes sense,) the older engines were made with looser tolerances. With modern (computer controlled) lathes and milling machines the tolerances in an engine are now much tighter. A gap that might have been 0.01" to 0.02" in an older engines can be held to 0.002" or tighter now. The thicker, higher viscosity oils cannot flow through these tiny gaps as well as the thinner, lower viscosity oils can. Therefore you need to use the thinner, lower viscosity oils in modern engines.
Please, correct me if I am wrong but this is the way I have understood it to work for some time now.
03-19-2012, 09:08 PM
#23
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Steve,
Thanks for chiming in.
Thanks for chiming in.
03-19-2012, 09:29 PM
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There are two reasons I haven't done the IMS upgrade. First, and most important, I bought an extended warranty through Fidelity, and heaven forbid anything happen to the car, I do not want them to claim that an aftermarket part contributed to it.
Second, and admittedly less importantly, I don't think there's anything really solid, at least that I've seen, that actually proves the LN unit is a substantial upgrade over the stock unit. I'm certainly not saying that it isn't, I'm just saying it seems like most of the information on the Internet is highly speculative, at best, and that makes it difficult to make a real assessment of how effective something is. There's no double-blind studies showing the difference in fail rates with the two systems. We know there's a very low fail rate with the LN bearing, but we also know there's a very low fail rate with the stock bearing. Now that LN advises swapping it every 5 years, or whatever, is there any reason to think the stock unit would do meaningfully worse if swapped out every 5 years?
I'll probably do the upgrade when my warranty is up, but I'm hoping there's more data to substantiate its effects by then.
Second, and admittedly less importantly, I don't think there's anything really solid, at least that I've seen, that actually proves the LN unit is a substantial upgrade over the stock unit. I'm certainly not saying that it isn't, I'm just saying it seems like most of the information on the Internet is highly speculative, at best, and that makes it difficult to make a real assessment of how effective something is. There's no double-blind studies showing the difference in fail rates with the two systems. We know there's a very low fail rate with the LN bearing, but we also know there's a very low fail rate with the stock bearing. Now that LN advises swapping it every 5 years, or whatever, is there any reason to think the stock unit would do meaningfully worse if swapped out every 5 years?
I'll probably do the upgrade when my warranty is up, but I'm hoping there's more data to substantiate its effects by then.
03-19-2012, 10:25 PM
#25
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