Porsche Baby SUV based on Q5 to be called Macan!
02-17-2012, 04:50 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
In my Porsche dealer's service waiting room there's a big glass display case. On one side is a display of "Porsche" wristwatches, and on the other side, "Tag Heuer" sunglasses 
These days there's nothing much sacred when it comes to brand identity, but as long as consumers fall for it it will only get worse.
These days there's nothing much sacred when it comes to brand identity, but as long as consumers fall for it it will only get worse.
02-17-2012, 05:28 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That was quite a little rant. I particularly enjoyed your original "head in the gutter" idiom. 
And BTW, it's ridiculous, not "ridicolous".
Anyway, many Porsche owners have multiple Porsches in their garages, including Panameras and Cayennes. Many Porsche owners do not. Your deli guy has a Cayenne. So what? Does his having one diminish you or the enjoyment of your car in some way? How sad if you think it does.
It won't be "HARD" to do routine service on the 991, in fact it looks to be significantly easier than it was with the 993. It's more involved than on my 997.2 but I doubt Porsche made it that way just to spite owners. I've owned and worked on enough cars to know that, in any event, the issues you're complaining about for routine service are no big deal. Unlike you, I share the same opinion as virtually every independent tester that overall the 991 is a great car and that nearly all of the changes are improvements. Is it perfect? No car is, but it's a worthy successor to the 997 in a great line of 911's. I don't have to back away from anything.
And BTW, it's ridiculous, not "ridicolous". Anyway, many Porsche owners have multiple Porsches in their garages, including Panameras and Cayennes. Many Porsche owners do not. Your deli guy has a Cayenne. So what? Does his having one diminish you or the enjoyment of your car in some way? How sad if you think it does.
It won't be "HARD" to do routine service on the 991, in fact it looks to be significantly easier than it was with the 993. It's more involved than on my 997.2 but I doubt Porsche made it that way just to spite owners. I've owned and worked on enough cars to know that, in any event, the issues you're complaining about for routine service are no big deal. Unlike you, I share the same opinion as virtually every independent tester that overall the 991 is a great car and that nearly all of the changes are improvements. Is it perfect? No car is, but it's a worthy successor to the 997 in a great line of 911's. I don't have to back away from anything.
991 discussion is totally off-topic here and not sure why you brought it in. I am done discussing that here.
Bottom line is, Macan will be a big seller, will get more soccer moms into Porsche than before, and I PERSONALLY like if they focused on more specialty cars like Alan described, instead of glorified Audis with a Porsche badge.
02-17-2012, 06:10 PM
#33
Race Director
Funny, when you personally attacked me, you should expect the same in return, and sorry about my spelling. It was completely uncalled for to call my statement which is 100% factual, what you did, and I expected more from you, as despite our disagreements I do respect your opinions.
Look, I just got back from a great one hour backroad drive on a beautiful day here. I'm in a good mood and I see no point in arguing this further. On some things we agree, and others we clearly don't. Cheers, and have a good day.
02-17-2012, 07:16 PM
#35
Drifting
I want to say a lot of things ... But just don't want to stir the pot once again. Especially since Mike has already echoed my thoughts. Exactly how I would have put it. 
Oh Yes . 15K trouble free miles on the CS and 20K trouble free miles on my C4S.
Oh Yes . 15K trouble free miles on the CS and 20K trouble free miles on my C4S.
02-17-2012, 09:22 PM
#36
Drifting
Alex we love and share your passion for 911s. But I feel that at times we 911 owners have a super ego. We have heard it all haven't we.
1. Air cooled car owners are the true enthusiasts.
2. Cayenne is not a real Porsche.
3. Boxsters are bought by those who can't afford a 911 and C4s is a turbo wannabe.
4. PDK (don't even get me started on that one...)
If money is no objective and someone is in the market for an SUV why would they not get the Cayenne. Honestly, we want to talking about PORSCHE if not for the Cayenne which has been their bread winner ever since its inception.
1. Air cooled car owners are the true enthusiasts.
2. Cayenne is not a real Porsche.
3. Boxsters are bought by those who can't afford a 911 and C4s is a turbo wannabe.
4. PDK (don't even get me started on that one...)
If money is no objective and someone is in the market for an SUV why would they not get the Cayenne. Honestly, we want to talking about PORSCHE if not for the Cayenne which has been their bread winner ever since its inception.
02-18-2012, 03:13 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Alex we love and share your passion for 911s. But I feel that at times we 911 owners have a super ego. We have heard it all haven't we.
1. Air cooled car owners are the true enthusiasts.
2. Cayenne is not a real Porsche.
3. Boxsters are bought by those who can't afford a 911 and C4s is a turbo wannabe.
4. PDK (don't even get me started on that one...)
If money is no objective and someone is in the market for an SUV why would they not get the Cayenne. Honestly, we want to talking about PORSCHE if not for the Cayenne which has been their bread winner ever since its inception.
1. Air cooled car owners are the true enthusiasts.
2. Cayenne is not a real Porsche.
3. Boxsters are bought by those who can't afford a 911 and C4s is a turbo wannabe.
4. PDK (don't even get me started on that one...)
If money is no objective and someone is in the market for an SUV why would they not get the Cayenne. Honestly, we want to talking about PORSCHE if not for the Cayenne which has been their bread winner ever since its inception.
Well, I agree with you to a point, I think the thing that bugs me and some, is that Porsche was a sports car manufacturer, and the brand always represented sporty, racing, tracking, car guys, etc... WHEN the manufacturer steers away from that identity, for sure many will be upset.
I actually do not mind Boxster/Cayman, know why air-cool had to end, and did understand why Cayenne was introduced when it did, and 991 while more GT and not to my liking is a capable sports car... BUT, at the current state with VW ownership, I just do not understand why they continue with brand dilution?! They could focus their effort into making even more amazing sports cars, to maybe add a few specialty AWD cars that enthusiasts would love, and bring back more individuality to Porsche brand, as they can totally afford it.
I ultimately think this dilution approach is the wrong long-term strategy, they need to keep their cars unique to demand premium pricing, and when they go down to $30K price level, and just remake the same SUV that's being built by VW, Audi that's no longer the case.
02-18-2012, 03:17 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I was simply responding to your comments in post #27 ("I think you so overwhelmingly supported the 991, after details came out you couldn't back away, is that right?") That's why I brought it in.
I wasn't attacking you personally, Alex, just your incredible contradictory statement that described so well what it still means to be a Porsche owner for so many of us, right before you said how it doesn't mean that any more. Perhaps I would have been less snippy in my reply if you hadn't made that crack about how I "blindly approve ANYTHING Porsche corp does no matter what!".
Look, I just got back from a great one hour backroad drive on a beautiful day here. I'm in a good mood and I see no point in arguing this further. On some things we agree, and others we clearly don't. Cheers, and have a good day.
I wasn't attacking you personally, Alex, just your incredible contradictory statement that described so well what it still means to be a Porsche owner for so many of us, right before you said how it doesn't mean that any more. Perhaps I would have been less snippy in my reply if you hadn't made that crack about how I "blindly approve ANYTHING Porsche corp does no matter what!".
Look, I just got back from a great one hour backroad drive on a beautiful day here. I'm in a good mood and I see no point in arguing this further. On some things we agree, and others we clearly don't. Cheers, and have a good day.
At any rate, let's agree to disagree, and end the debate here... as I said, I respect your opinion regardless as you are indeed a Petrol head like me!
02-18-2012, 03:29 PM
#40
This is actually pretty interesting as an homage to Porsche Racing History. The Formula One MacLaren MP4/2 was powered by a 6 cylinder Porsche Turbo - well, I don't think it was a "Porsche" Turbo. TAG (at that point in time before it was split up with the watch brand now owned by LVMH) had a motorsport group that, with Porsche's help, supplied the MacLaren MP4/2 engine. It was a pretty successful partnership with 22 GP wins in 48 starts ('83 to '87), two constructors championships and three drivers championships (Lauda 2 / Prost 1). (And one of the Prost's Chassis' was at Rennsport Reunion and when you look at it it is no wonder why so many drivers used to die in crashes.)
The most famous connection started with Jo Siffert, an F1 and Le Mans driver of the 60's and early '70s. (Sadly he died in 71). He was Swiss and was the first driver to be sponsored by Heuer (before the TAG group aquired Heuer in the mid-80s). Jo Siffert was a factory Porsche driver for the legendary Gulf sponsored Porsche 917k Le Mans cars. When Steve McQueen made his movie Le Mans, he used Jo Siffert's race suit, complete with "Heuer" patch. Steve chose the Heuer Monaco as his watch for the film, the rest as they say is history...
TAG Heuer milks the Porsche/McQueen connection in much of their adverstising. Now days it's all about marketing. Hence the irony of the former post about Porsche "watches" being sold along side TAG Heuer "sunglasses".
Getting back on topic. My wife adores her 2012 Audi Q5. If the Porsche variant had been out, I would have opted for that in a heart beat. My wife likes smaller nimbler cars, she felt the Cayenne was just too big.
From one viewpoint, it would be nice if Porsche just did sports cars. But in today's economics, it doesn't bother me one bit that they make sedans and SUVs, as long as their sports cars remain pure to the Porsche heritage.
02-18-2012, 03:30 PM
#41
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Looks like everyone is jumping onto the bandwagon. Now Lamborghini is building a SUV
http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-c...amborghini-suv
http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-c...amborghini-suv
02-18-2012, 05:24 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
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All I know is Macan still sounds better than Cajun. The Cayenne is actually too small to be an SUV for my needs, so the Macan will do even less for me, unfortunately. I'm sure it's otherwise a blast to drive, however. The streets will be crawling with them in no time.
02-18-2012, 09:03 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
The Porsche connection to TAG Heuer actually pre-dates the TAG Porsche F1 engine supplied to the McLaren team in the mid '80s. (For the record, it was Prost 2, Lauda 1, in terms of world championships won using the TAG Porsche F1 engine.)
The most famous connection started with Jo Siffert, an F1 and Le Mans driver of the 60's and early '70s. (Sadly he died in 71). He was Swiss and was the first driver to be sponsored by Heuer (before the TAG group aquired Heuer in the mid-80s). Jo Siffert was a factory Porsche driver for the legendary Gulf sponsored Porsche 917k Le Mans cars. When Steve McQueen made his movie Le Mans, he used Jo Siffert's race suit, complete with "Heuer" patch. Steve chose the Heuer Monaco as his watch for the film, the rest as they say is history...
TAG Heuer milks the Porsche/McQueen connection in much of their adverstising. Now days it's all about marketing. Hence the irony of the former post about Porsche "watches" being sold along side TAG Heuer "sunglasses".
Getting back on topic. My wife adores her 2012 Audi Q5. If the Porsche variant had been out, I would have opted for that in a heart beat. My wife likes smaller nimbler cars, she felt the Cayenne was just too big.
From one viewpoint, it would be nice if Porsche just did sports cars. But in today's economics, it doesn't bother me one bit that they make sedans and SUVs, as long as their sports cars remain pure to the Porsche heritage.
The most famous connection started with Jo Siffert, an F1 and Le Mans driver of the 60's and early '70s. (Sadly he died in 71). He was Swiss and was the first driver to be sponsored by Heuer (before the TAG group aquired Heuer in the mid-80s). Jo Siffert was a factory Porsche driver for the legendary Gulf sponsored Porsche 917k Le Mans cars. When Steve McQueen made his movie Le Mans, he used Jo Siffert's race suit, complete with "Heuer" patch. Steve chose the Heuer Monaco as his watch for the film, the rest as they say is history...
TAG Heuer milks the Porsche/McQueen connection in much of their adverstising. Now days it's all about marketing. Hence the irony of the former post about Porsche "watches" being sold along side TAG Heuer "sunglasses".
Getting back on topic. My wife adores her 2012 Audi Q5. If the Porsche variant had been out, I would have opted for that in a heart beat. My wife likes smaller nimbler cars, she felt the Cayenne was just too big.
From one viewpoint, it would be nice if Porsche just did sports cars. But in today's economics, it doesn't bother me one bit that they make sedans and SUVs, as long as their sports cars remain pure to the Porsche heritage.
02-18-2012, 10:39 PM
#45
That's actually a special car for Prost. Prost won his first of four world championships in that car in '85. Indeed car #2 was Prost's car, as Lauda had won the '84 championship and drove car #1. Prost would win the WC again the folliwng year in '86, still using the TAG Porsche powered McLaren. McLaren switched to Honda power in '88, the year Senna won his first WC.