Flat6 Innovations

Totally disagree. It is entirely possible for an IMSB to progress through all 4 stages of bearing failure in one single oil service.

Just today we received a failure call from someone who had done exactly the regimen that you summarized and it was ineffective. He even pulled the oil sump plate at the last oil service, which he carried out himself and documented.

His story will be the perfect poster child and he is more than willing to share it. The problem is, he doesn't own a computer!

holden997

Did a failed IMS bearing cause this?

alexb76

It is to YOUR benefit to fear monger... the guardian doesn't do jack!

All is needed is to monitor oil, get a magnetic plug, AND in 2005 cars upgrade the IMS, specially if someone's doing the clutch (saves labour considerabley)! Ofcourse, there's a remote chance things can go wrong, but it's fairly rare and not worth all this hoopla.

BTW, if someone doesn't own a computer these days, should probably not own a Porsche!

Flat6 Innovations

Thats unfair. Do you have any idea how many Porsche owners that started their love affair with a 356 also own a 997 today? Those people didn't grow up with a computer, never needed one and worked through their professional lives without one.

They comprise a large number of the people that still have money to spend on their Porsches and they don't deserve that statement.

alexb76

I just don't believe that you have to "quote" on their behalf because "they don't own a computer"?

Anyhow, your job is to generate sales for your products by getting people scated... BUT based on all discussions with local LN Engineering rep, and the head mechanic for Porsche dealer here (my friend), IMS issues are WAY OVERBLOWN, and basically do not exist on post 2005 cars. His recommendation is for older 2005 cars with earlier IMS, just upgrade the bearings when you do a clutch work and you're done! All of these other items are not proven, and as other posted may even cause issues with making the *guardian* the new weakest link!

Flat6 Innovations

...

Quadcammer

Man, watching alex get embarrassed is entertaining.

keep it up fellas.

Gus B.

I will definitely side with Jake on this one.... At the end of the day, required or not, for ±$1,000 you get a lot of peace of mind. I see others spending much more on cosmetic stuff or other things that don't necessarily add any value to the vehicle or helps it become more reliable. I am looking very seriously at an early 2005 C2S, but unfortunately for me it is a Tip, so figuring out which bearing type would be a few hundred dollars in labor "just to see", hence me asking about the Guardian Jr. for 997s. I for one am very thankful for Jake's development and service for M96 engines. Those who see otherwise have the right to their opinion and I don't wish any harm to anyone, but perhaps if one of them goes through a catastrophic engine failure, then they may see the "other side of the fence". $1K investment to protect ±$18K repair? Sounds somewhat reasonable to me.

alexb76

That's M96...

Again, this is his business, must generate fear to sell!

Flat6 Innovations

Its not that easy.. Trust me. The "fear" keeps people from buying these cars and it also keeps them from spending the required price of admission for our engine package, afraid that even we can't overcome the issues.

We share the truth as we see it and thats all. Good. Bad. Ugly

BED997

If you watch Jake's facebook you can see a steady stream of business regarding the M9X engines.
I understand Alex's reservations and points, and I wonder if this is representative of what other high(er) performance car owners experience with engine reliability. Is this common with BMW and Corvette owners and some of the others in this category? Engines coming apart for various reasons? Rates of failure 1-5% or whatever before 100K miles?

alexb76

I am just relying on your own (LN engineering) *certified installer* folks locally, and basically what they've told me, and they got no benefit from telling me this, is that for M96 and older IMS designs, failures are under 5%, and for M97 and newer designs it's less than a few in thousands... they recommend to absolutely skip 0W40 oil, use thicker high quality oil, install magentic drain plug, and for older M96 and 2005 cars, go for the upgrade IMS, SPECIALLY if you're doing your clutch. IMS Gaurdian for older engines, if someone's not upgrading IMS yet.

They've said basically the failure rate of less than 0.1% on M97, the fact that upgrade of IMS costs thousands (gotto open the crank), makes it unncessary to be cautious as much as you should be on M96... that's all.

So, I guess we agree afterall (at least for M96)... if I had an older 2005 car, and I was close to clutch replacement, would 100% upgrade the IMS while doing the clutch, two birds with one stone. Btw, I just watched the Guardian installation video, it's quite involved, and if someone didn't do it themselves, the labour cost is close to just upgrading the IMS, so to me, upgrading the IMS has better bang for the buck, don't you think?

Dadio

Alexb78 You're points are well taken. In order for people to make informed decisions they need to have as broad an understanding of the issues as possible. Your comments contribute to that process. Keep em coming.

rotesAuto

I used to be a vegetarian too

Flat6 Innovations

And those are just from the owners who allow us to share their projects on FB. It also doesn't include any of the behind the scenes builds that we don't care to share publicly. We shipped cars to 3 states this week and still have Porsches here from 16 more states here, from Florida all the way to Oregon.

The IMSG is installed more into the cars that have degrading values and aren't worth a lot. At the same time the IMSG install is not involved, here we charge TWO hours of labor to install the system completely and that includes an oil service. Thats not even close to comparable to an IMSR.

That said we developed the IMSG as a DIY only and find it crazy that some people would take the car to a dealer for installation of the system. The lower value cars are generally owned by DIY'rs and they are the ones who the IMSG makes sense to. Most 997s aren't to that point yet, but as values drop it'll be just like the 996.

The really wise owners retrofit the bearing and install the IMSG, because they realize that the system monitors every ferro-magnetic wear component within the engine and is not limited to the IMS bearing.

Also, I'd like to know how anyone, anywhere has determined ANY failure rate percentages that are accurate. The data to support any of these percentages simply does not exist. They are guessing and they damn sure aren't here answering our phones.