momentif

This thread was a wealth of information and a great read to a newbie like myself.

Thank you for Flat6 and all other 9A1 M96/M97 engine owners for their postings.

Ags 911

I have an 09 Carrera 3.6 that has 62K in mileage. No issues thus far and uses little oil. Very pleased!

Marine Blue

It's hard to wrap my head around 9A1 engine issues when I rarely read about problems with 09 and later cars on any of the forums. We all know those with problems tend to vocalize the problems and I'm just not seeing it.

I'm sure a few engines have issues but the percentages must be miniscule.

It would be interesting to hear what failures are occurring in the races cars as they may highlight what to expect as our engines age.

CaymanPower

This is a very simple question with a very simple answer... I don't see how your answer could possible harm you or your business.

I understand that you have invested a lot in this and therefore you need to carefully choose what type and the extent of the information you can give away for free... I never had that problem despite the whole year and the money I have spent trying to figure out what was happening with the two 987.2 Caymans of mine. I do something else for a living.

So, I think I have the legitimacy to ask you, in your experience, what cylinders are the most affected?

You are entirely entitled to not answer Flat6 Innovations, but in that case you should have NEVER brought up the subject in the first place. Don't you think so?!

Bruce In Philly

I agree.... I am actually surprised at how few complaints or issues there are on these forums on the DFI engine. I've been reading these Porsche forums for 15 years and never heard so little.

And after two engine failures of the last design, I am pretty darn pessimistic... I am one who would believe the sky is falling but I just don't see it.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

yashagrawal

I bought my MY 2009 C4S in 2012 with 8 k miles, its now 22 K miles. The car was purchased on the east coast, and it would initially consume about 1 gallon per 2500 miles or so (from memory). I drove it spiritedly on the east coast and subsequently moved to the desert (low humidity), where the opportunities to drive fast abound. The striking thing has been that there is now no discernible oil consumption. The decreasing oil consumption was becoming obvious even when I was at the east coast. Looks like the car engine is settling in as the previous owner did not drive much. Has anyone had such a drastic change in oil consumption... Car has been otherwise reliable.

CaymanPower

It is also my belief that the 997.2 engine is pretty reliable. Statistical, the problems that exist seem to be pretty low on number and when they do arise it happens mainly with pretty low mileage cars. High oil consumption in these car's early miles should be a concern. One should always check the engine oil level VERY regularly and top it up whenever necessary providing that burning oil is due to oil rings not yet properly seated on the ALUSIL bores and not to an already scored bore. Failing to observe this can lead to oil starvation on critical engine parts namely on the cylinder walls leading to bore scoring if this isn't the root cause in the first place.

The main problems I'm aware of with the 9A1 DFI engine are: (1)High pressure fuel pump (there's a Porsche's campaign for its replacement free of charge in certain car's VIN); (2)Bad fuel injectors (which is fairly common on any early direct fuel injection engine); (3)Bore scoring; and (4)Abnormal cam chain wear.*


It would be interesting to know how these early engines are doing as they start to accumulate above 45k miles. That's the main unknown right now.

Bruce In Philly

Yes, I did.... it uses less and less. I purchased my 2009 C2S with 26K miles on it and it ran through oil... don't know the amount but I was concerned. Between then and now at 74K miles.... it consumption has steadily declined and is uses practically nothing now. I may put 1/2 quart in in 7K miles now. I always thought engines broke in within the first 15K miles or so. This engine is odd.... but in a good way.

At the current pace of miles vs oil consumption, my engine will be producing Mobil 1 in about a year.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Bruce In Philly

HP Fuel Pump: As I understand it, the dealers just swapped them out and the owners sometimes were unaware of it.

Bad injectors: This is the first time I heard of this one.

Bore Scoring: Scary stuff.... no smoke with mine. Actually I find the fact that I don't get smoke as a bit of a surprise. The M96 engines used to smoke at apparently random starts. I could get my 2000 Boxster S to smoke if I started the engine and immediately shut it off (like when moving it a few feet in a garage. Start it back up and I would get a nice puff. Of course the air oil separator was a common source of this and I went through a few of them.

Cam Chain: Again, never heard of this with the DFI although the guides & chain were a failure mode of the M96.

Ticking: I get this one. It can be loud and a bit disconcerting. While I haven't taken it to the dealer, I understand it is normal given the reports I read on the forums.

Drop out/skip at around 2700 RPM: I get a dropout thump when moderately accelerating under load as in going up a hill. Supposedly it is the variocam transition. Much as been posted on this.... some have it some don't have it. Pisses me off frankly but..... it appears to almost dissapear now with my car.... I haven't posted this yet.... Maybe it is related to the cold.. I will post in March or April in the warmup.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

CaymanPower

No smoke, no worries!


I would trace it back to the 'Drop out/skip at around 2700 RPM' issue. Scary stuff!


Not normal. With yours engine mileage I would definitely say valve lifters wear providing you don't have any exhaust smoke upon startup.


At what mileage did it start to happen?

Bruce In Philly

Always. From 26K miles new to me to 74K... all the same. Google it, there is much out there on it and apparently, it is even in the 991 engines. I took my dealer tech for a ride and he felt it..... said he never heard of it and it appeared to him to be the variocam transition. Other posters had their dealers say "normal" or "some have it some don't have it". Some say it is a "lazy actuator".

The dealer put in on the computer... no codes at all.

I will be doing spark plugs in the spring... I may just replace the actuators just for a lark to see what happens.

Again, Google it. It may be hard to find as there is no standard lexicon for this everyone uses their own words to describe it. But, it is fairly common. So, for the 50K miles I have had it now, there are no other issues except the ticking and that is pretty documented as some sort of valve at the top of the engine with no negative consequences other than the sound.

I am a worrier.... these two items don't worry me although I would prefer, obviously, that they weren't there.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

CaymanPower

The Variocam transition should always be seamless and no loud ticking noise should be heard from the engine.

Look for premature cam chain wear!!!

If you wanted to sell it, I wouldn't buy the car from you with those symptoms and I'm in the market for a 997.2.

KNS

How are the Air/Oil Separators holding up in the DFI engines - any failures? I understand it's a slightly different design..?

LexVan

Do they/we even have 'em?

Gonzo911

For years Jake has scared the crap out of the 996 crowd with his observations of catastrophic engine failures that he feels are inherent to the MY99-2005 Porsches and later, the 997.1.

Jake sees only sick cars so I understand his skewed perspective. I also understand that Jake has a business to run and an agenda. As fewer 996 owners can afford a new engine rebuild at Flat 6 (or an LNE Retrofit for a possibly failing IMS Bearing), Jake needs to expand his business.

Jake has posted in the 996 forum about bore scoring and is now promoting this mode of failure in the 997 forum. Believe it if you want. But I have heard this story before....ad nauseum.

Jake is not a fear monger. He is a skilled marketer. And, he is one of the main reasons the 996 values are as low as they are today.

It's not the headlights.

I'd hate to see the same thing happen with the 997.2.