LENELSA

The bottom line is that CPO paperwork is all BS. The dealership has to pay for a car to be certified Pre-owned. So for them to say they went through a 118 point inspection of the car and made necessary repairs is a crock O' ****. When you bring the car back with an issue thats covered under CPO, Porsche North America pays for it, so the dealership makes money.
I found this out from someone who works for Porsche.
So if you are having an issue, take the car to a different dealership for CPO repairs.

my 2 cents

DG_Hennessy

This salesman is actually correct. I work at one of the largest dealers in North America and I can also no longer print them out on the new computers and software provided by Porsche. I did however, print one out not long ago using the old computer system, but these are being faded out. If this dealer is only running the new sysem then there is no way for him to print it.

This is a salesman that is trying for you and being completley honest and upfront with you.

Macster

That sort of matches my info. The techs I talk to told that the old PIWIS system dies (this was before the end of 2011) at the end of 2011.

After that the shop would just have PIWIS2. The techs were bemoaning the pending loss of the PIWIS because in some cases it was quicker/easier to set up/use.

I do not was not told and of course never thought to ask what output limitations there would be. Not being able to print the DME overrev report is a bummer.

Now it might be the PIWIS2 system can generate an email/PDF of this data and the shop referred to by the OP just hasn't gotten up to speed yet with the new system.

Sincerely,

Macster.

mgordon18

Well this is at least good news for me in this situation. It means the salesperson isn't trying to jerk me around... At least not yet. Now let's see how he reacts when I offer $7K less than their ask!

Macster

You can always offer what you want. Price is an opinion not a fact.

What I have found helps me in my car buying is when I offer something less and I always do is to be ready to answer the question"where did you get that number?"

Be ready to run down a list of similar cars for sale and how long they've been on the market. It helps of course if the asking price is if not down to the level you've offered at least lower. If they are priced nearly the same the number of cars available which of course clearly suggests one seller will be willing to take less.

Also, run down a list of cars that are similar even though they are not Porsches. Do not signal you must have a Porsche. If the salesman senses/knows you've got to have a Porsche he's going to use that to get you to pay more.

Be sure you make it clear that you are ready to buy a car now if you can reach a deal. The idea is that if the dealer sees you walk off his lot without a new car he's lost a sale because you're going somewhere and buy a car.

This gives you some negotiating power.

Remember the next best thing to driving your Porsche is shopping for the next Porsche. Have fun.

Sincerely,

Macster.

mgordon18

Thanks for the advice, Macster.

This car is a CPO'd 2007 C2S with 23K miles. The original MSRP in 2007 was close to $93K if my math is right. It's been on the market since June, at three different dealerships, according to the carfax report. That scares me a little, but the DME report is good and the rest of the car fax looks good. If it passes the PPI with few/no problems then I'm not sure what else would keep me from trying for it.

The dealer is asking $60K. I think that's high. There are other 2006 and 2007 C2Ss out there with similar mileage (mostly from private parties) from the high $40s to mid $50s. There are also a bunch that are comically priced in the mid-$60s. The prices are really all over the place.

There's one late-year '06 S in particular that I'm fond of that's asking $49,900. It's not CPOd and I'm not too ecstatic about its color, but I'd definitely be willing to go for it. I've spoken to the owner and he's straightforward and knowledgeable about his car.

So comparing this car against that '06, non-cpo:
Model year
06 is an 06 - but with a late production date, so IMS is the new design AFAIK
07 is an 07
---- +$500 to the '07

Mileage
'06 has 19,000 miles
'07 has 23,500 miles
---- + $500 to the '06

CPO
'06 = no CPO
'07 = CPO
---- + 2500 to the '07

Everything else is basically a wash. They both have Nav, both have manual seats, both have sport chrono. The '07 has P77 sport seats. The '06 also just came back from an RMS repair, so that's brand new.

So, taking the '06 as a base, model year and mileage are a wash, and then add $2500 for the CPO = ~$52,500.

I think that's on the low end of fair. I'm assuming I'd end up around $53,500 for it. Anything more than that and I'll keep looking, or buy the other car.

DHC

RE: the price, to quote the great Raising Arizona, "the price isn't what you say it is, it's what the market will bear." That fact applies to both you and the seller. Love that movie.

But anyway, an ask of $60k doesn't sound like a bad place at all to start the discussion. Sure, that's their initial ask and there is most likely room for negotiation but, given it's a CPO (and the dealer has to make their profit), mid-to-high 50s sounds to me like a fair ending point. It's tricky to compare private sale offers to those made by a dealer, but any leverage you can use is a good thing!

As a point of reference, I bought my base model 2007 last March, CPO with only 11k miles, for $50. The used car market may have actually strengthened since then.

Good luck!

mgordon18

I went to see the car today. It's very nice. There were a few surface blemishes in the paint. Nothing deep, but definitely noticeable. Similarly there were a few scratches on various parts of the interior leather - a scuff on the passenger seat bolster, a scratch on the e-brake lever, etc. But all-in-all it's a tight looking car.

The upshot is that they can't come down to the price I was offering. I knew they wouldn't be able to, in reality. I went up there more to get some extra experience seeing the specimens that are close to my budget, so I can better know what to expect next time.

The dealership was empty and the salesman was actually really nice and seemingly straightforward and honest. It was a surprisingly pleasant visit. Since the place was so dead, the salesman, sales manager and I sat around talking for a few minutes. The sales manager told me the lowest they could go on the car was $58.5K (listing is for $60K). He said they're into the car for less, but $58.5 was as low as he'd go.

So ok. I'm $5K off. If GOOG had jumped UP 50 points today instead of DOWN 50 points, maybe I would have done it.

The hunt continues! Mush!

PS - They confirmed that they just got a software update to the computer system and can no longer print the DME reports.

USMC_DS1

Don't be afraid of getting one with higher mileage. My '08 Cs had 46k miles when I got it last year but had original warranty left plus CPO. Cost me less then the '07 your looking at but that was last year. These cars should last til 200k with proper maintenance.

Macster

If you know the car's MSRP and can estimate its cost to the dealer one depreciation formula has the car dropping 10% from what the dealer paid for the car the minute it is driven off the lot by its new owner and another 10% every year (when the next year's models come out) after that.

Sure some cars depreciate faster and some slower.

But work the numbers and see what the depreciated value of the car is.

Another thing you can do is visit one or several of the car sites like www.kbb.com and enter the car's info and see what the various trade in and private and retail sale numbers are.

My SOP when I try to put a value on a car is to assume the dealer has in the car what the trade in value is and probably less.

That is his cost. He's not going to sell you the car at his cost but how much over you pay for it is up to you and of course the seller.

A couple of owners over a relatively short period of time are probably the different dealers that offered the car for sale. What happens is a dealer will buy the car at an auction, often at a Porsche auction but any auction. He puts the car on his lot for sale. If it sells in a short time fine, he probably made a bunch of money. If not, if the car sits, he gets antsy and wholesales the car and another dealer ends up with it and the process starts again at this new dealer.

There can be considerable traffic of cars between dealers/regions that the average car buyer/shopper is not always aware of.

In 09 when I was shopping for a new (used) car I found in some cases the car's price on the lot was different than the car's price on the dealer's web site and in newspaper ads or online ads. I followed one particular car (the one I ended up buying) and found the price would go up or down around $1K or more without any pattern or vary in price depending upon where I found/looked up the price. Of course when I went to buy the car I knew the lowest price the dealer had offered the car and used that to come up with my own (lower yet) value.

Oh, all other things being equal I would go for a car that had a CPO warranty unless the warranty was this >< close to expiring. My 996 Turbo had only 10K miles on it but it came with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty. With those low miles I wanted the peace of mind the warranty offered and was willing to pay a bit more for a car with the CPO warranty. The warranty paid for itself and then some.

One other point is if you do buy a car with a CPO warranty it is not cost effective to allow the warranty to expire on time. Problems, if there are going to be any, appear from miles driven not from a car sitting around looking pretty on the driveway.

Now I know it is not reasonable to expect someone to say as was my case to buy a car with 10K miles on it and put 90K miles on the car in 2 years (though I tried!). But if you buy a car with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty and it expires 2 years from now and you've added just a few K miles...you wasted some serious money buying the car with the CPO warranty.

Sincerely,

Macster.

mgordon18

I'm staying away from cars over 35K because it blows my budget on the extended warranty. Once the car has 35K miles it jumps from $4800/6 years up to $8000/6 years.

Under 25K is even better - $3600/6 years.

If there's a CPO involved it's kind of a double-edged sword. Since I'll be driving the car ~8K miles/year, I'd like the CPO-car's initial mileage to be closer to 20K, so by the time the 2 years of the CPO are complete, I'll still be able to get the $4800 number on the extended warranty at that time. This allows me to get a full 8 years under some sort of extended warranty.

mgordon18

Trust me, Macster - I'm going to try to drive this thing as much as possible... But I still realistically think it'll be around 8K/year.

I'll try the math on that depreciation schedule and see what I come up with. I think this particular car is a goner, but it could definitely help me out on future offers.

Regarding getting a CPO car: I'd love one, but check out my post above. It would have to be a CPO car with some pretty low miles - probably jacking the price up past my budget.

The other option here, of course, is to forego the "S" and go with a base car. I'm confident I can get a solid '07 base 997 with a CPO for low '50s. But the "S" is calling me...

Macster

Part of the fun, or pain, in shopping/buying the next Porsche is making the decisions that have to be made. I'm no where near the point I can walk up to a new car or even a used one and just point and sign a check and drive off.

Trade-offs have to be made to remain within my budget.

In your case, to S or not to S, that is the question.

Oh, just in case you do not have enough to think about, when buying a used car is it generally advised (though of course one is free to ignore or modify this advice) to have set aside 10% of the car's purchase price to have just in case.

If one spends his entire 'bankroll' on a used car and if something unexpected comes up the car might have to sit until the money can be rounded up to have the unexpected dealt with.

If one picks a good car and with a bit of luck the 10% set aside money remains unspent.

Anyhow, you are in a nice position: shopping for a Porsche. Enjoy it and only the best of luck to you finding the perfect car for you.

Sincerely,

Macster.