mgordon18

I called a P-dealership today to ask them about a C2S they have in stock. The car's CPO'd, and I wanted to see the DME report before driving an hour to see the car in-person.

The salesman told me they would run the DME scan tomorrow and call me back with the results. I asked him to email me a copy of the printout and the guy told me that they were no longer "able to print out the DME scans." He said that Porsche was starting to "crack down" on it, so he'd only be able to tell me about it over the phone.

Any idea WTF he's talking about?

I addition, I thought a DME scan was a required component of the CPO'ing process. Is that not true? Shouldn't there already be a scan of this engine? The salesperson told me that the CPO was done at their dealership, so I assumed the report would be readily available...

Thoughts?
- Mike

AYHSMB

Nonsense, sounds like shenanigans. Tell him that as long as Porsche is using DME's to deny warranties you need a printed copy. Never ever just take anyone's verbal world for it. Later on if there's a problem that same dealer agent would tell you you should've got it in writing.

USMC_DS1

Don't be surprised if they insist that you don't need a PPI from an indy either. My $300 PPI saved me $1,600 and some headaches right off the bat on my CPO'd 997.1s. Make sure you get a DME and get an indy PPI... never trust the stealership. They will try to distract you with the CPO... "don't worry it's under CPO, we did a throughout 100+ inspection, and it's covered by CPO... no worries be happy" bovine excrement.

My Indy found a broken tailpipe($600) and RMS lead... all replaced/serviced before I took delievery and I negotiated an additional $1K off the agreed to price. PPI = peace of mind and negotiating positions - pricely. Oh yeah, they provided a DME before I would sign the check.

Negotiation is a game... the more you know the better your position. That's why they don't want to give you the upper hand with a PPI and/or DME. Keep pushing and have fun with the hunt.

mgordon18

That's good advice... I'm impervious to CPO hypnosis.

The salesman did actually agree (at least on the phone) to let me take the car to a local indy for a PPI. There's a good one within 20 minutes of the dealership. He also agreed to hand over the CPO report - I'm assuming this is the list of all the work that was needed to CPO the car.

We'll see - I'm not sentimentally attached to this car. If it's the right one, then it's the right one. If I get too much flack from Mr. Dealer, then I'll bail.

Mark Harris

Based on my CPO purchase experience the CPO report that they will provide you is nothing more than a two page pre-printed PCNA document that a mechanic pencil whipped by checking all the boxes.

IIRC the DME was not part of the CPO I had to ask for it separately. I do remeber getting some push back about getting a DME report. Not sure if we have one.....I'll have to make a service appointment for the car to get one.....blah, blah, blah. Fine. No DME, I walk.

When I got the DME it has a date/time stamp on it. The one they gave me was the one they apparently ran when they took back the car when it came off lease as it was about 45 days old. Requested current one. Stealerships.......

cibergypsy

Funny that the OP mentioned this; two weeks ago I saw a white 2004 996 Turbo with X50 and all the options I could want at an authorized Porsche dealer up North and, when I asked about the ECU scan, they told me Porsche had recently done an update to the PIWIS and they can no longer get scans for 996 older cars, only the more recent ones, and that they were working to resolve the issue. Well, I figured this to be BS and, come to think of it, I haven't received any more communications from them at all! Last time I looked at Porsche USA's website (where I noticed the it), the car is not there any longer!

I guess it's the nature of the business but, c'mon, they need to make the excuses more credible or elaborate so as to seem realistic.

DHC

Yeah, I think they're yanking your chain and simply don't want to go through the effort of running/printing/faxing the DME. It's not like it is that big of a deal for them.

You're handing this exactly the right way (e.g., healthy skepticism, unemotional about THIS car, asking here for advice, etc.).

Good luck with the purchase. Let us know how thing turn out.

No HTwo O

If they won't provide a current DME scan, run away, don't walk. Most likely, they have something to hid.

mgordon18

Here's an update:

Salesman called me back today with DME information. He reiterated that they were no longer able to print the DME report from the computer - "We used to be able to, but we can't anymore. There's no way to do it." He did, however, have the tech take a picture of the computer screen and send that through to me. The screenshot did not include any identifying info about the car in question, though. In response to his email, I asked him to confirm that the included DME report was for the car we'd been talking about, and then wrote out all the car ID info, including the VIN and day the DME was supposedly run. Hopefully he'll write back with a confirmation.

The DME report, itself, looks pristine:
Range 1: 428 @ 922.000
Range 2: 8 @ 922.000
Range 3: 0
Range 4: 0
Range 5: 0
Range 6: 0

Strange that the operating hours are at 922.000 dead, but I guess that's a coincidence? One thing not shown on the screenshot is the total operating hours, but the car has 23K miles on it. Doing some light math, that 922.000 number seems pretty out of whack to me... unless this car's avg mph is in the low 20s... And even then, that means the overrevs just happened.

Not sure what to think. Attached is the actual screenshot. Sorry it's so big.

ADias

Ask him to find the car's average speed recorded in the DME. It will tell you when those DME events happened. Events I and II are usually assumed OK. I would like to know how did they happen? If this was a recent event (test drive)... was this a rev limiter bump with a hot or a cold engine?

osugasman

Would someone mind giving a quick tutorial on interpreting the DME report for a planned future 997 owner? Thanks, Brian

utkinpol

i had to ask too for DME scan to be included into PPI report dealer produced. it did not cause any objections. i guess it just shows whom do you want to work with in the future. if indi mechanic has durametric he can read DME content to show you but you want dealer to confirm those readings when you get car from them and confirm those readings (whatever they are) do not affect your warranty status.

'tutorial' is simple - range 4 and above must be clean, range 1 and 2 should not show like 20K or more revs in them, service manager should look at those readings and interpret them to you. they know this stuff very well.

utkinpol

it is very interesting. i know porsche now pushes new version of PIWIS 2, it may be that thing, actually.

if it is true it will soon enough be very well known.

400 somthing ignitions in range 1 and 8 in range 2 at 922 hour is fine. in the other screen it should have shown how many hours total you have on the motor but it is not important.

it is sad if it does not print reports from PIWIS. it had very interesting other info there - serial number of your engine, or your transmission, some other useful codes too . go figure.

OR it may be other thing - they never give this full printout to anybody who it not a car`s owner, actually. it also will have complete list of all dealership work done on the car, etc.
that may be an actual reason why they did not send real printout to you.

mgordon18

Update 2:

Salesman replied to my confirmation request, confirming in email-writing, that these numbers are in fact from the 997 in question, and reiterating the VIN. I think that's all I can hope for at this point. This overrev report is one of the best I've ever seen...

I'll see the car in-person tomorrow to check if I can get in and out of those sport seats! If I deem that to be a non-issue, then it's on to the PPI...

utkinpol

if you will visit service department ask tech or service manager if all this crap was due to new PIWIS or if it was a policy change.